Status of IFS

[murryton]

"Attitude, aptitude and airsickness - applies to both pilots and FO's."

Thanks, sir. That's the best explanation as to why SNFO's go through IFS that I've heard.

BTW, I apologize as if it came off like, "why the F do FO's go through IFS?" I was not trying to insult anyone's profession, rather looking for a reason to back up why they go through a pilot training program. Uncle Fester answered that.

 

[squorch2]

Say it with me - IT'S NOT TRAINING. IT IS SCREENING. It's even in the acronym.

 

[Jim123]

... be sure to say so on all those training surveys you have to take at the end of every stage.

^^^ Good gouge. No matter how much or how little stuff you know when you're a student, when you get a chance to fill out a written critique:

-be specific
-include pertinent details (who, what, when, where)
-be fair (what you did or did not do to resolve the issue and why)
-be tactful

Whether it's positive or negative.

 

[FlyinRock]

Say it with me - IT'S NOT TRAINING. IT IS SCREENING. It's even in the acronym.

****************************************
True but as an instructor of 40+ years, and in excess of 6K hours dual given, the first ten hours of training are some of the most important of any pilots flying. Bad habits can be learned in less than :30 and it can take a thousand hours to cure it.
I know of a couple of SNA's who attrited after they got about half way through primary and I heard they were doing OK in the program. Reason to quit unknown to me. There are others who made it out of IFS in spite of my shaking my head and wondering who pulled the strings. Some were just plain square pegs in triangular holes and got to primary anyway and eventually attrited.
I have agreed with Festus time and again that ATTITUDE and APTITUDE are probably the two most important attributes for SNA and SNFO's.
In my IFS time I've flown with about 1000 students and hear from some of them from time to time. What they've told me indicates IFS is effective as far as they were concerned and their personal experiences. Certainly it has something to do with the instructors they were exposed to and their overall IFS experience.
Semper Fi
Rocky
BTW - I invite any of my former studs to chime in pro/con

 

[squorch2]

I agree that the first exposure that people get to flying tends to stick with them, but my above comment was more in response to the question "why do SNFOs get pilot training?" - when, as you said, it's more of a gauge of attitude and aptitude, not flying ability.

 

[OUSOONER]

While I didn't go through IFS, my roommate at the time and many of my friends did.

I can say this, when I first started flying, those first 20+ hours were critical in laying the foundation for learning the skill.

Since IFS only gets you to your solo and a cross country (I believe?) , you learn some valuable tools going forward.. BUT right after IFS many studs go right back into the a-pool to await an API class. While in API there is no stick time and then you wait again to class up for Primary...the skills you learn from those 20+ hours in IFS rapidly become rusty since it is vital you keep practicing what you've learned, ESPECIALLY at first when everything is new to you.

So I believe since there is a significant gap in being out of the cockpit once you've learned something in IFS, it can ONLY be a screening process and it gives the SNA/SNFO a brief introductory into their careers. Nothing more.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Do folks really get motion sick for the first time in their life in IFS??? That would surprise the hell out of me... like they never threw up in the car etc... why in the hell would you even waste the Navy's time with a known propensity for tossing cookies when vehicle goes bump? You could buy one of the rickety Zipper rides from the fair... or read a book while sitting backwards in our car with my wife driving....
Thats about like a spin in the turboweener eh??? Maybe worse!

I couldn't make a life decision like being a nuke without going on SSN714 for my first class cruise (thank god, that cured me of the idea)... I paid for a few flights prior to selecting for flight school to make sure I would like it... common sense?

 

[Swanee]

Do folks really get motion sick for the first time in their life in IFS??? That would surprise the hell out of me... like they never threw up in the car etc... why in the hell would you even waste the Navy's time with a known propensity for tossing cookies when vehicle goes bump? You could buy one of the rickety Zipper rides from the fair... or read a book while sitting backwards in our car with my wife driving....
Thats about like a spin in the turboweener eh??? Maybe worse!

I couldn't make a life decision like being a nuke without going on SSN714 for my first class cruise (thank god, that cured me of the idea)... I paid for a few flights prior to selecting for flight school to make sure I would like it... common sense?

You would think so. I know a guy headed down to Pcola who is deathly afraid of flying. It takes him an entire bottle of cold medicine to get on a commercial flight, yet he thinks he will be okay at IFS/Flight School...

 

[CommodoreMid]

I think being in a hot Cessna with the pressure of performing is much different than a bumpy car ride or an amusement ride. I don't get sick on roller coasters or anything, but I definitely got sick to my stomach the first couple times in IFS and primary, though I didn't barf. Being in a small airplane is something the average person has to get used to I think.

 

[Calculon]

Yeah there's going to be differences but I would definitely think people who get motion sickness from even relatively small things like amusement park, car, boat, and plane rides should consider what line of work they're going into...

 

[RedFive]

Do folks really get motion sick for the first time in their life in IFS??? That would surprise the hell out of me... like they never threw up in the car etc... why in the hell would you even waste the Navy's time with a known propensity for tossing cookies when vehicle goes bump? You could buy one of the rickety Zipper rides from the fair... or read a book while sitting backwards in our car with my wife driving....
Thats about like a spin in the turboweener eh??? Maybe worse!

I couldn't make a life decision like being a nuke without going on SSN714 for my first class cruise (thank god, that cured me of the idea)... I paid for a few flights prior to selecting for flight school to make sure I would like it... common sense?

Sir, I felt the same way. I'm not sure why so many SNAs show up never having set foot in a small plane -- not even the cheap 1hr/$50 introduction ride they give at every flight school in the US. But I have seen several people get sick at IFS. One threw up sitting in the back seat watching his buddy fly. Another one literally collapsed on the pavement after the first flight and just stayed there for several minutes.

 

[sanders]

Alright guys... I took initiative and made a call to the IFS office up here at TBS. The gentleman I spoke to who was one of the IFS admin guys up here in Virginia told me that the reason Delta company is headed straight to Pcola without doing IFS first is... ding ding ding a funding issue. I asked him if he knew what the status was for later companies (specifically Alpha) and he told me that we would be doing IFS up here BEFORE heading to Pcola. In other words, delta company was kind of a fluke. I hope this helps clear up some nasty rumors (that I helped spread).

 

[pourts]

While in API there is no stick time and then you wait again to class up for Primary...the skills you learn from those 20+ hours in IFS rapidly become rusty since it is vital you keep practicing what you've learned, ESPECIALLY at first when everything is new to you.

So I believe since there is a significant gap in being out of the cockpit once you've learned something in IFS, it can ONLY be a screening process and it gives the SNA/SNFO a brief introductory into their careers. Nothing more.

I don't think 20 hours of IFS "yoke time" would help in primary much, no matter the wait.

 

[OUSOONER]

I don't think 20 hours of IFS "yoke time" would help in primary much, no matter the wait.

You are emphasizing my point. I am saying for it to matter as far as "learning to fly", you would have to have substantially more time and it would have to be uninterrupted for IFS to be considered an intro into flying vice a screening.

 

[RotorHead04]

I don't think 20 hours of IFS "yoke time" would help in primary much, no matter the wait.

You might be suprised. For some, it causes them to decide that aviation is not for them and punch out early. For others, particularly those that couldn't afford the time / money for previous private lessons, it can be an invaluable experience to prepare for the future. It's not [neccesarily] just about how close a Cessna is to a TurboWeenie, but rather fostering the concept of airmanship -- something that transcends the particular platform(s) you fly.

From personal experience, I can tell you that I was more confident on the radios and with the general concept of flying when I started Primary due to my time in IFS.