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robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Amen, and I say that as someone who teaches in college.

This article is related. Basically, a majority of current student loan holders owe more now than when they took out their loans. The principal is growing on them. They will never pay their loans back. We've set up a system that guarantees failure.


The $1.7 trillion tower of mostly unrepayable student debt is a symbol of education policy failure...

This situation is the fruit of a tacit agreement among state legislatures, college administrators and the federal government dating back to the 1970s: defund public colleges and universities and shift them to a tuition-based revenue model, with the federal government backstopping the system with student debt so that more students can continue to obtain more expensive education...

To get a handle on the student debt crisis, the government will eventually have to redesign its relationship with American higher education.
@taxi1 what's the big deal? All the global elites are banking on this to solve all of the worlds debt problems . . .
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
And a surplus of useless basketweaving majors.
Something to think about, but what is the point of a college degree? Is it to gain knowledge and understanding of a subject or is it to get a job?

I don't think those are mutually exclusive at all, but perhaps a lot of stuff that we go to college for should be more akin to vocational training.

Cool, I'm glad you know how skilled laborers in Hampton Roads think and can decide whether or not unionizing makes sense for them. I will take firsthand accounts and talking to all parties involved over your own pro-union propaganda. Unions don't always make sense and many workers don't see the benefit when they will be forced to pay part of their wages to the union and be stuck in more rigid promotion/pay scales without the ability to negotiate for more customized pay and compensation packages.

Don't believe me? Read this article discussing a successful unionization campaign in SF where even they had pushback from their fellow proles socialists workers: https://vinepair.com/articles/anchor-brewing-company-union/


Yeah, it's crazy. I have many friends who went to college on loans, failed out, and then finally found their niche in blue collar fields working on cars, HVAC systems, and welding. These dudes were all C students at best and hated school. They should have never been told to go to college in the first place or been allowed to take out five-figure loans that they are still paying back almost 20 years later. The sad part is that the requirements for a BA/BS are a natural result of businesses not being able to test for competence or intelligence in hiring. It used to be you could take an IQ test or some other cognitive function battery and then get hired by companies into training pipelines. This isn't dissimilar to how the DoD uses the ASVAB, AFOQT, and ASTB/OAR for MOS and designator selection. Unfortunately it was ruled unconstitutional: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.


Something needs to be done about college loans. At the very least, they need to be dischargeable in bankruptcy but I think we need to have fewer people going to college and find other career routes and paths for them to take. College shouldn't be a prerequisite to live a fulfilling life with purpose and dignity.

As a member of a union in Hampton Roads (IATSE 264 out of Hampton before it folded, now a national unvoting member while on military orders of local 2 out of Chicago) I do feel that I have the ability to speak for what union members in Hampton Roads want and need in this forum.

I gave you an absolute real world example of what happened when we lost the union, with the actual numbers to back it up. So go kick rocks.

You're right, you can go scab and bring in a slightly bigger paycheck. But you work 60-70 hours a week instead of 40, with no overtime and you have to pay for your own benefits.

While I have absolutely seen the worst parts of unions- where folks could get paid for 42 hours in an 18 hour day, I will say that I've never experienced a union production ever missing a deadline in my (former?) industry because of labor. The show must go on.

BTW- the apprentice school in Newport News is one of the best things in the country as far as our education system goes.

*Edits to clean up weird stuff from typing on my new phone.... Because I'm old*
 
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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I know we're getting off-topic, but you also have to keep in mind what the cost of living is. $70K might sound great, but that's not much in LA. Medics in my area are pretty poorly compensated unless they're in the FD in a big city. And then you may end up getting a Mandatory on your day off. Even the county contracted providers aren't paid all that well.

That's not to say she shouldn't do it. By all means, go for it! But just go in with eyes open and understand gross salary isn't the whole story.
That is specific to a few departments where cost of living is not bad, and that was the low number they gave me, just 10 miles away they are starting at 80K. If she goes for it then like my other kids I will go over expenses, budgeting and all the other fun things they get to do as an adult.

The plus is that I know the Assistant Chief for one department and the Chief of the other department near me, I was able to go up there and they talked to her, they asked some questions, she asked some questions, toured the paramedic rig, good tour until the entire department was called out for a woman down in her house, unfortunately nothing they could do for the woman.

They told my daughter she can several ride alongs, that one department is often referred to as a teaching or feeder department.
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
As a member of a union in Hampton Roads (IATSE 264 out of Hampton before it folded, now a national unvoting member while on military orders of local 2 out of Chicago) I do feel that I have the ability to speak for what union members in Hampton Roads want and need in this forum.

I gave you an absolute real world example of what happened when we lost the union, with the actual numbers to back it up. So go kick rocks.

You're right, you can go scab and bring in a slightly bigger paycheck. But you work 60-70 hours a week instead of 40, with no overtime and you have to pay for your own benefits.

While I have absolutely seen the worst parts of unions- where folks could get paid for 42 hours in an 18 hour day, I will say that I've never experienced a union production ever missing a deadline in my (former?) industry because of labor. The show must go on.
So does your IATSE chapter interact with the yardbirds a lot? Are you helping them unionize? Have you talked with them? Have you heard their concerns? Have you talked with the yard owners? Have you heard their concerns? What about the government yards? You been there and seen their manpower reviews and budgets?

I have and my friends and fellow EDOs who are responsible for running those yards and employing those yardbirds. And I've seen just how small the labor pool is and how tight things are at NNSY and up in Newport News. Skilled laborers in the yards are raking in the dough and are in such demand that if they don't like it where they are, they just go across the street for more money and better conditions. That's not the ideal environment for a union to form.

And frankly, your reliance on your IATSE membership doesn't impress me. My father spent his entire career in the Cinematographers Guild and I've heard plenty of horror stories about the union messing up deadlines and threatening strikes over petty things. The Writers are striking as we speak because they don't like the fact that they are getting out-competed by technology. That strike is threatening the entire industry because the Writers are feeling selfish. So save it for somebody else.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
Amen, and I say that as someone who teaches in college.

This article is related. Basically, a majority of current student loan holders owe more now than when they took out their loans. The principal is growing on them. They will never pay their loans back. We've set up a system that guarantees failure.


The $1.7 trillion tower of mostly unrepayable student debt is a symbol of education policy failure...

This situation is the fruit of a tacit agreement among state legislatures, college administrators and the federal government dating back to the 1970s: defund public colleges and universities and shift them to a tuition-based revenue model, with the federal government backstopping the system with student debt so that more students can continue to obtain more expensive education...

To get a handle on the student debt crisis, the government will eventually have to redesign its relationship with American higher education.
I searched the link for info describing why the loans are repayable, and I don't have a NYT sub to read the article.

Why is it that most the loans are not repayable? The idea that most loan holders owe more now than when they took out the loans seems hardly surprising, as they took out loans as freshmen, paid nothing for 4 years while adding to the debt each year, and then many deferred payments for long periods while eligible due to things such as serving in the military. Unless I'm missing some finer details.

I'm coming at this from a position of ignorance, but it seems like I was able to repay my student debt by working hard... Why can't everyone else? Why should tax payers like myself have to pay for their loans as well? And how does "forgiving" student loans (a complete misnomer) solve anything, other than buy the guy who did it some votes from grateful societal leaches?
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I searched the link for info describing why the loans are repayable, and I don't have a NYT sub to read the article.

Why is it that most the loans are not repayable? The idea that most loan holders owe more now than when they took out the loans seems hardly surprising, as they took out loans as freshmen, paid nothing for 4 years while adding to the debt each year, and then many deferred payments for long periods while eligible due to things such as serving in the military. Unless I'm missing some finer details.

I'm coming at this from a position of ignorance, but it seems like I was able to repay my student debt by working hard... Why can't everyone else? Why should tax payers like myself have to pay for their loans as well? And how does "forgiving" student loans (a complete misnomer) solve anything, other than buy the guy who did it some votes from grateful societal leaches?
Dude - let's not inject common sense or any semblance of educated thought here, you'll end up triggering a lib for God's sake ?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'm coming at this from a position of ignorance, but it seems like I was able to repay my student debt by working hard... Why can't everyone else? Why should tax payers like myself have to pay for their loans as well? And how does "forgiving" student loans (a complete misnomer) solve anything, other than buy the guy who did it some votes from grateful societal leaches?

I'm showing my age but the total of my student loans, which amounted to about half of the total cost of 4 years as an out of state student at a state school, would not even pay for a single year at my school now with inflation taken into account.

Colleges and universities have almost universally raised tuition and other fees far above inflation for decades now and the government has subsidized those increases through student loans. A bit like our health care system we have a bass ackwards way of how we not only set prices but pay for our higher education. There are plenty of folks out there who are more than qualified to go to college but cost is a significant barrier.

And before folks chime in with 'join the service' just remember that an estimated ~77% of eligible folks don't qualify to serve and it ain't just because they are out of shape. We remind my coworker who just got Army recruiting duty of that fact quite often, to his chagrin. But with few other widely available programs to provide a way for folks to get college paid for, even those that want to serve their country or community just not in uniform, student loans is often one of the few realistic options.
 
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taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Why is it that most the loans are not repayable? The idea that most loan holders owe more now than when they took out the loans seems hardly surprising, as they took out loans as freshmen, paid nothing for 4 years while adding to the debt each year, and then many deferred payments for long periods while eligible due to things such as serving in the military. Unless I'm missing some finer details.

I'm coming at this from a position of ignorance, but it seems like I was able to repay my student debt by working hard... Why can't everyone else? Why should tax payers like myself have to pay for their loans as well? And how does "forgiving" student loans (a complete misnomer) solve anything, other than buy the guy who did it some votes from grateful societal leaches?
On the face of it, yes.

I always start an analysis with the fact that this generation is genetically identical to us. If you could swap places, we'd be making the same decisions. They've grown up in the world we created for them.

Like all good mishaps there are multiple links in the chain. Short incomplete list:
- Loss of state support for higher ed, meaning education is funded more by tuition than by allocation from the states = prices go up
- Creation of a society where he message is to get ahead you have to have a 4 year degree
- Easy money to get = minimal downward pressure on price from that
- No incentive from the higher education complex to keep prices low, since there is easy money and the more we charge, the more we get

So we (us older folk) created a world where they need 4 year degrees, we withdrew funding by the state so we pay less than what was paid when we were their age, we own stock in the companies that loan them money and we have laws that prevent them declaring bankruptcy so they have to pay us back, even though they are just following incentives towards making bad choices that we created.

We really are blood-sucking vampires of the next generation, when you look at it.

It is a fact that these loans will not be paid off. There is simply no way to do it. No amount of sleeve-rolling-up etc. will put them in a position to earn enough, after having bought what we were selling. The question is what to do about it. If we do nothing, we will have sacrificed a generation who won't be able to buy homes, have families, start businesses, and so on.

One interesting thing about the payment and interest freeze during the pandemic, is that a lot of people kept paying anyway, and it allowed them to burn down the principal to the point that they can stay ahead of the interest. It is allowing them to pay off their loans.

Worth reading the article, very eye-opening.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
@Mirage :Here's the article minus the graphics, which definitely help get the point across.

In the early days of the Covid-19 pandemic, the federal government stopped requiring regular payments of student loan debt — a pause that has lasted more than three years. But student loan repayment had been dwindling for at least a decade before the pause.

You can imagine the stock of outstanding student debt as an overflowing bathtub: More students purchasing more undergraduate and advanced degrees at increasing tuition prices is the water gushing out of the faucet, and non-repayment is a blockage in the drain. The drain is blocked because despite what economists, policy-makers and educational administrators claim, a college degree doesn’t always “pay off.”

In recent years, many Americans with student loans weren’t making enough money to pay even the accumulating interest on their debt, let alone make progress on the principal. Wage stagnation is a long-running phenomenon that worsened after the Great Recession. But an important additional source of student loan misery is the widening and diversifying nature of the Americans who take them out. It’s increasingly the case that people who were always going to have low earnings no matter their educational attainment are also overloaded with student debt — think of underpaid teachers who acquired expensive master’s degrees for only a modest pay increase. The promise of higher education leading directly to high incomes is hollow.

Regardless of what happens after the scheduled resumption of payments in September and to the Biden administration’s plans for partial student debt forgiveness following the Supreme Court’s ruling in June, we predict that most of the outstanding balances — not to mention the roughly $100 billion in new loans issued every year — won’t ever be repaid. In the meantime, while the administration and the courts wrangle over the executive branch’s ability to waive student debt under existing law, student debtors feel forced to downsize their life plans. They delay or forgo marriage and family formation, homeownership, retirement and their children’s education: a profound failure of social reproduction.

Our student debt research uses credit reports, both from an annual, representative cross-section of student borrowers and from a single group of borrowers we’ve been following since 2009. We found that counterintuitively, the repayment pause was the best thing that ever happened to help student loans get repaid. That’s because in normal times, student debt balances mostly increase, thanks to monthly interest payments many borrowers are unable to keep up with. In 2020, 60.7 percent of outstanding student loans had a higher balance than when they were first issued. By 2022, that number had declined to 53.7 percent because interest was waived during the pandemic and some borrowers continued to pay down their principal.

The chart below compares repayment progress on loans in our 2020 cross-section with progress in 2022. The group with increasing balances shrank enormously during the repayment pause. Notably, Black and Latino borrowers had more loans with increasing balances before the pause; they benefit disproportionately while it remains in effect.

The pandemic payment pause is a salve for a sick student loan system​


Student borrowers are not a monolithic group, and some demographic groups fare far better with their education debt than others. From the group of 2009-era debtors we’ve been following, we learned that female, Black and Latino borrowers generally saw their loan balances continue to increase above their 2009 level; male, white and Asian borrowers generally were able to make progress in paying their balances down (albeit not to zero — and the standard repayment term on federal loans is 10 years).

The diverging trajectories of Americans with student loans​


On average, male, white and Asian borrowers made progress on their loans between 2009 and 2022. Female, Black and Latino borrowers had increasing balances until the repayment pause came into effect.

These divergent trajectories are due to structural inequalities in the labor market, which disadvantaged workers try to overcome with increased educational attainment. More advantaged workers don’t need to borrow as much to earn a decent salary and can start paying off the debt they do take on more quickly. The pandemic repayment pause changed the game, causing balances that had been increasing over the prior decade to start to fall. A student loan system in which borrowers do not generally repay their student loans during normal times, but in which they do repay them when they’re not required to, cannot be said to be functioning well.

This situation is the fruit of a tacit agreement among state legislatures, college administrators and the federal government dating back to the 1970s: defund public colleges and universities and shift them to a tuition-based revenue model, with the federal government backstopping the system with student debt so that more students can continue to obtain more expensive education. This change was justified by the idea that higher education “pays off” in the labor market.

Opportunities for middle-class employment without a college degree have certainly dwindled. But increasing the educational credentials required for any given job or salary doesn’t magically make pay go up. It just means the higher education system gets to take a larger slice of a worker’s lifetime earnings on the front end. And if the debt can’t be repaid, taxpayers swallow the loss on the back end — but only after the borrower has endured years of mounting balances and their negative consequences for wealth accumulation and creditworthiness.

This odd structure — in which federal funding comes in the form of student loans that won’t ever be repaid, as opposed to direct funding of colleges and universities — lets school administrators off the regulatory hook. In theory, the market of students selecting their preferred college experience is supposed to discipline schools’ financial conduct. In reality, it does not. This is why college administrators resist free-college proposals that amount to direct federal funding in return for capping tuition: They fear their socioeconomically segregated business models wouldn’t survive the regulatory scrutiny attached to those dollars.

The $1.7 trillion tower of mostly unrepayable student debt is a symbol of education policy failure. Unfortunately, politicians in both parties seem unable to think outside the neoliberal box that got us here. Republicans in Congress have proposed limits to federal loans, barring students from the system once their balances reach a certain threshold. That is an exclusionary vision that seeks to return higher education to its pre-G.I. Bill status as a bastion of white privilege for a tiny elite.

The Biden administration proposes to regulate (some) colleges based on whether their students can eventually repay their student loans and to force all programs to disclose post-graduation earnings and debt burden before students enroll. Those proposals cling to the idea that the labor market is where the value of an education is ultimately determined. Colleges can convincingly object that they don’t control their students’ lives after graduation and would be penalized for enrolling needier students.

To get a handle on the student debt crisis, the government will eventually have to redesign its relationship with American higher education. The current era of tuition-based revenue models has colleges competing for the students who can pay full freight, which can relegate the neediest students to the least-resourced institutions. A healthier system would look more homogeneous, with students from all over the income scale spread across institutions nationwide, instead of being an elite scramble between students and schools to fill a few open seats at the top.

To get there, the Department of Education should make institution-level eligibility for federal student loans contingent on a uniform, very low cost of attendance for undergraduates and affordable tuition levels for professional programs. The structure of federal student loans should reflect society’s long-term needs, not just those of employers and universities preying on the generosity of the student loan program and of students desperate for jobs in an economy that feels ever more winner-take-all.

One way of ensuring and backstopping those policy goals could be the creation of a new federal university system, in which the campuses would be homogeneous in terms of financial and other resources and the student bodies socioeconomically diverse, rather than the other way around. But it’s more comfortable and politically convenient to continue to fight the culture war over higher education than to confront the facts about the causes and consequences of this ugly mountain of student debt. The Supreme Court has ruled. The Biden administration is searching for a new way forward. It’s time for a change of course.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Something to think about, but what is the point of a college degree? Is it to gain knowledge and understanding of a subject or is it to get a job?
Both of these are true. But there's two parts to college. It's a continuum, not a binary, but there's the "higher education" bit that's supposed to make you an educated person, so to speak, and there's the "learning a white-collar trade" bit where you become an engineer, teacher, lawyer, or doctor. That said, I'd argue that the hard STEM fields are vehicles for upward mobility, whereas the humanities and such are not something to recommend to someone who isn't either born to some degree of wealth or willing to live with the smaller paycheck you're going to get in such a field.

That doesn't make the humanities wrong or stupid, but it does make going into debt for a humanities or fill-in-the-blank-studies degree a really, really dumb financial decision. Ultimately, the humanities (and colleges originally) were finishing schools for the upper class, not vehicles for social mobility. And that's doubly so these days, where the humanities as a field seems to have more or less disappeared up its own postmodernist asshole. Which is a shame, because a lot of what's wrong with society lately can get pinned on STEM grads, CS grads in particular, who had zero understanding of the potential social consequences of the products they were building.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
@Mirage :Here's the article minus the graphics, which definitely help get the point across.

In the early days of the Covid-19 pandemic, the federal government stopped requiring regular payments of student loan debt — a pause that has lasted more than three years. But student loan repayment had been dwindling for at least a decade before the pause.

You can imagine the stock of outstanding student debt as an overflowing bathtub: More students purchasing more undergraduate and advanced degrees at increasing tuition prices is the water gushing out of the faucet, and non-repayment is a blockage in the drain. The drain is blocked because despite what economists, policy-makers and educational administrators claim, a college degree doesn’t always “pay off.”

In recent years, many Americans with student loans weren’t making enough money to pay even the accumulating interest on their debt, let alone make progress on the principal. Wage stagnation is a long-running phenomenon that worsened after the Great Recession. But an important additional source of student loan misery is the widening and diversifying nature of the Americans who take them out. It’s increasingly the case that people who were always going to have low earnings no matter their educational attainment are also overloaded with student debt — think of underpaid teachers who acquired expensive master’s degrees for only a modest pay increase. The promise of higher education leading directly to high incomes is hollow.

Regardless of what happens after the scheduled resumption of payments in September and to the Biden administration’s plans for partial student debt forgiveness following the Supreme Court’s ruling in June, we predict that most of the outstanding balances — not to mention the roughly $100 billion in new loans issued every year — won’t ever be repaid. In the meantime, while the administration and the courts wrangle over the executive branch’s ability to waive student debt under existing law, student debtors feel forced to downsize their life plans. They delay or forgo marriage and family formation, homeownership, retirement and their children’s education: a profound failure of social reproduction.

Our student debt research uses credit reports, both from an annual, representative cross-section of student borrowers and from a single group of borrowers we’ve been following since 2009. We found that counterintuitively, the repayment pause was the best thing that ever happened to help student loans get repaid. That’s because in normal times, student debt balances mostly increase, thanks to monthly interest payments many borrowers are unable to keep up with. In 2020, 60.7 percent of outstanding student loans had a higher balance than when they were first issued. By 2022, that number had declined to 53.7 percent because interest was waived during the pandemic and some borrowers continued to pay down their principal.

The chart below compares repayment progress on loans in our 2020 cross-section with progress in 2022. The group with increasing balances shrank enormously during the repayment pause. Notably, Black and Latino borrowers had more loans with increasing balances before the pause; they benefit disproportionately while it remains in effect.

The pandemic payment pause is a salve for a sick student loan system​


Student borrowers are not a monolithic group, and some demographic groups fare far better with their education debt than others. From the group of 2009-era debtors we’ve been following, we learned that female, Black and Latino borrowers generally saw their loan balances continue to increase above their 2009 level; male, white and Asian borrowers generally were able to make progress in paying their balances down (albeit not to zero — and the standard repayment term on federal loans is 10 years).

The diverging trajectories of Americans with student loans​


On average, male, white and Asian borrowers made progress on their loans between 2009 and 2022. Female, Black and Latino borrowers had increasing balances until the repayment pause came into effect.

These divergent trajectories are due to structural inequalities in the labor market, which disadvantaged workers try to overcome with increased educational attainment. More advantaged workers don’t need to borrow as much to earn a decent salary and can start paying off the debt they do take on more quickly. The pandemic repayment pause changed the game, causing balances that had been increasing over the prior decade to start to fall. A student loan system in which borrowers do not generally repay their student loans during normal times, but in which they do repay them when they’re not required to, cannot be said to be functioning well.

This situation is the fruit of a tacit agreement among state legislatures, college administrators and the federal government dating back to the 1970s: defund public colleges and universities and shift them to a tuition-based revenue model, with the federal government backstopping the system with student debt so that more students can continue to obtain more expensive education. This change was justified by the idea that higher education “pays off” in the labor market.

Opportunities for middle-class employment without a college degree have certainly dwindled. But increasing the educational credentials required for any given job or salary doesn’t magically make pay go up. It just means the higher education system gets to take a larger slice of a worker’s lifetime earnings on the front end. And if the debt can’t be repaid, taxpayers swallow the loss on the back end — but only after the borrower has endured years of mounting balances and their negative consequences for wealth accumulation and creditworthiness.

This odd structure — in which federal funding comes in the form of student loans that won’t ever be repaid, as opposed to direct funding of colleges and universities — lets school administrators off the regulatory hook. In theory, the market of students selecting their preferred college experience is supposed to discipline schools’ financial conduct. In reality, it does not. This is why college administrators resist free-college proposals that amount to direct federal funding in return for capping tuition: They fear their socioeconomically segregated business models wouldn’t survive the regulatory scrutiny attached to those dollars.

The $1.7 trillion tower of mostly unrepayable student debt is a symbol of education policy failure. Unfortunately, politicians in both parties seem unable to think outside the neoliberal box that got us here. Republicans in Congress have proposed limits to federal loans, barring students from the system once their balances reach a certain threshold. That is an exclusionary vision that seeks to return higher education to its pre-G.I. Bill status as a bastion of white privilege for a tiny elite.

The Biden administration proposes to regulate (some) colleges based on whether their students can eventually repay their student loans and to force all programs to disclose post-graduation earnings and debt burden before students enroll. Those proposals cling to the idea that the labor market is where the value of an education is ultimately determined. Colleges can convincingly object that they don’t control their students’ lives after graduation and would be penalized for enrolling needier students.

To get a handle on the student debt crisis, the government will eventually have to redesign its relationship with American higher education. The current era of tuition-based revenue models has colleges competing for the students who can pay full freight, which can relegate the neediest students to the least-resourced institutions. A healthier system would look more homogeneous, with students from all over the income scale spread across institutions nationwide, instead of being an elite scramble between students and schools to fill a few open seats at the top.

To get there, the Department of Education should make institution-level eligibility for federal student loans contingent on a uniform, very low cost of attendance for undergraduates and affordable tuition levels for professional programs. The structure of federal student loans should reflect society’s long-term needs, not just those of employers and universities preying on the generosity of the student loan program and of students desperate for jobs in an economy that feels ever more winner-take-all.

One way of ensuring and backstopping those policy goals could be the creation of a new federal university system, in which the campuses would be homogeneous in terms of financial and other resources and the student bodies socioeconomically diverse, rather than the other way around. But it’s more comfortable and politically convenient to continue to fight the culture war over higher education than to confront the facts about the causes and consequences of this ugly mountain of student debt. The Supreme Court has ruled. The Biden administration is searching for a new way forward. It’s time for a change of course.
While I disagree with much of the body, which is full of hand waiving and false claims, I do agree with the conclusions and recommendations, especially the bold portion. If universities want to benefit from public funding directly and indirectly via funding for student loans, then there should be strings attached, such as limiting the cost of the education. Likewise, if students want to benefit from low interest student loans, they should have to get a degree/certification that society is in need for (STEM, trades, etc). Again, I'm ignorant and spitballing, but it seems to me these things alone would steer people into jobs we have shortages for, cut down on the art history degrees who end up at Walmart and unable to repay their loans, and prevent the ever ballooning costs of education driven by administrators who preach how much they want diversity and inclusion, while pricing out folks from poorer backgrounds and adding to their ridiculous endowments.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I may have missed it in one of these posts, but the disconnect between the economy's needs for degrees in certain various majors is a problem. Just how many basket weaving BA's does America need? However many that is can be subsidized by student loans. The balance of basket weavers will have to find another way to pay without my tax money. I am sure a much larger percent of student loans given to Recreation and English majors go delinquent. My taxes do not have to pay for whatever major you want, or to go to the most expensive private school.

Quite seperately, our very best colleges have endowments that could pay for student tuition in perpetuity. Fvck them. Be a part of the solution they helped make.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I may have missed it in one of these posts, but the disconnect between the economy's needs for degrees in certain various majors is a problem. Just how many basket weaving BA's does America need? However many that is can be subsidized by student loans. The balance of basket weavers will have to find another way to pay without my tax money. I am sure a much larger percent of student loans given to Recreation and English majors go delinquent. My taxes do not have to pay for whatever major you want, or to go to the most expensive private school.

Quite seperately, our very best colleges have endowments that could pay for student tuition in perpetuity. Fvck them. Be a part of the solution they helped make.
AI is rapidly and violently going to turn this model upside down quickly . . . .
 
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