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SPLIT: So, what's up with IFS?

HackerF15E

Retired Strike Pig Driver
None
I don't want to go too far out on a limb here because we are talking about a Navy program and I'm a USAF guy, but the AF has been doing IFS for about 9 years now, and was doing light aircraft flight screening for about 30 years before that. There is a well established purpose and track record for flight screening in the land of "lead wings", and I have to assume that it works the same for gold wingers.

I see your point, but I would have to disagree. IFS is Introductory Flight Screening, emphasizing Introductory. Just as high school is different from college, so is primary from IFS.
<SNIP>
If people require a few extra flights in IFS to help them, then why not?
<SNIP>
So if you can make someone that much better with a little extra time in the beginning, why not?

The problem with your thinking is that you are ignoring the third word in the title -- screening. As much as you may not want to believe it, the purpose of IFS is to screen. It is not to actually TEACH you anything about flying.

They are screening first off for adaptation to flying. They are seeing if people have the basic ability to get in the airplane without being sick or scared. There are some people who get assigned to flight school who have never flown, but have this great Top Gun inspired idea that they want to fly. There are some of these guys who get airborne and realize that they simply don't like it.

Second, they are screening for a future SNA's ability to learn at a particular pace. Their ability to learn and adapt to a new concept both academically and in flight in a specifc time period. Why? The syllabus at Primary has been designed to get the best learning in the least amount of time and money. Adherence to the syllabus is a given when you're actually flying to earn your wings, and you won't be given extra time outside of that syllabus. The same thing goes for IFS, and is one of its most important purposes.

The 'teaching someone to fly' portion, which you probably see as the main mission of IFS, is really just a mechanism to see if students are able to pass purposes 1 and 2 stated ablove.

That is an oft misunderstood aspect of military flight training. I used to teach Fighter Fundamentals for the USAF in T-38s. When students would wash out of the program, they would often tell their buddies that they washed out for "bad BFM" or something like that. What they were missing was that the goal of that program was NOT to teach BFM, but to teach fighter wingman admin responsibilities: being in formation, not over-flying bingo fuel, not hitting your flight lead, etc. Teaching BFM was simply a mechanism with which to test a student's ability to learn and apply this whole wingman concept. Just the same, the purpose of IFS is NOT TO TEACH YOU TO FLY A GA AIRPLANE...it is to test your ability to adapt to the military way of training pilots (and statistically, for the USAF at least, it does an excellent job of it meaning far fewer washouts).

It seems to me that your real criticism is this: why is a civilian making a determination about my future career.

Well, even though they are civilian CFIs, they are operating within a syllabus and using grading standards given to them by the Navy. As such, it doesn't matter if they have a commission hanging on their wall at home or not -- they are executing a plan developed by the Navy and applying standards proscribed by the Navy. Get used to it -- it's not the last time in your career you'll be working with civilians.
 

SubtoSky

Officer NOooo...
None
Oh my...

Just my opinion here.

I came into the program with a PPL and begged to get into IFS because I had not been a cockpit in more than two years. So, at least when I went through (two weeks ago), they were not giving IFS to people with PPL's.

Second, I have a degree in music and I had absolutely no problems passing the API academics nor the FAA written exam. If an indvidual cannot pass a multiple choice exam where both, the questions and the answers are available ahead of time, they have no business in the cockpit of a multi-million dollar aircraft.

The program is designed to screen. It works well. The instructors who work here are here to get you out to the fleet. That is why they're here.
If you cannot accomplish these basic tasks, the odds are greatly stacked against you down the road when the tests are no longer multiple choice and somebody's life is at stake. Bottom line, the program has worked many generations now and I am sure it will continue to work into the future. IFS=good thing.

There, I think that should just about take care of it.
 

Schnugg

It's gettin' a bit dramatic 'round here...
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Besides, I do not think getting a PPL automatically bypasses you through IFS anymore. Some of my classmates and then some people I met at A-pool who had PPLs were still required to complete IFS.

100% wrong.

I just went around the corner to the IFS office here at USNA. And lo and behold the CNATRA IFS Director was visiting, so we chatted.

What you said is just not true...rumor mill at it again.

All IFS will now be done at USNA/TBS or P'Cola (for ROTC). Stuff that may have gone down last year is no longer happening...(like IFS at Newport for USCGA).




PM me the name of the school and what they said...I can forward it along to the right people.
 

Heloanjin

Active Member
pilot
IFS is being taken more seriously now (for use as a further weeding-out tool) and the Navy, although they swear up and down they are not doing this, is looking for a certain drop-out rate and they have revoked flight school contracts on the grounds that the flight schools are not failing enough people.

IFS has always been taken seriously by the Navy/USMC.

The Navy/USMC is not looking for a particular drop out rate in any portion of flight training, including IFS. The Navy makes some predictions on what the attrition rate will be and then brings in enough students so that, when all the attrition is done, there are enough winged aviators to man the fleet. However, if the attrition rate ends up being lower than expected/predicted, then the Navy/USMC needs to cut back on the number of new students (ie cut down on flight school contracts). Why? Since fewer attrited than planned, then more are getting winged than planned. Too many winged aviators is almost as bad as not enough.
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
IFS has always been taken seriously by the Navy/USMC.

The Navy/USMC is not looking for a particular drop out rate in any portion of flight training, including IFS. The Navy makes some predictions on what the attrition rate will be and then brings in enough students so that, when all the attrition is done, there are enough winged aviators to man the fleet. However, if the attrition rate ends up being lower than expected/predicted, then the Navy/USMC needs to cut back on the number of new students (ie cut down on flight school contracts). Why? Since fewer attrited than planned, then more are getting winged than planned. Too many winged aviators is almost as bad as not enough.

The Royal Saudi Navy needs to look at this concept and adhere to it. As it is, they send us guys but don't plan for attrition. Better screening would help vs no screening at all.
 

tk628

Electronic Attack Savant
pilot
Fwiw, I had the opportunity to teach IFS at USNA when the program first started in, and I was basically instructed to get everyone through who wanted to keep flying regardless of being a little bit slower than the pack or not. If the stud didn't DOR, bends in the program were made accordingly.

That being said to say a CFI doesnt evaluate is f'n crap. You obviously have no idea that when a CFI sends your dumb ass up solo, and you f it up its the CFI who gets the blunder on his flight record. Try going to apply for an airline with 3 wrecked aircraft on your record. Besides of the career liability how about the morality of what you are doing? I can bet you that any CFI is no going to send Joe Bob out to solo, if he can't really do it for the $19 he's going to get, because Joe Bob is a person. Do you really think a CFI wants to be responsible for watching their student possibly die? NO....

I have talked in depth about the changes in IFS since I was teaching it with the chief pilot I worked for in Annapolis, and for the most part they are good things. My stud who got pushed through, when he really couldn't hack it, DOR'd after 4 fams and it could have saved the Navy a lot of money, had we used IFS as a screening tool when it first came online.

I'm glad you are enjoying your IFS experience, but get used to being judged whether you know it or not. To assume, and b1tch that IFS isnt like it used to be is crap! Your right its not, get over it, and adapt to the situation at hand.
 
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