Spike's Tactical M4 Upper

[Rocketman]

Yea that's not good.

Mil Spec only requires something like 4MOA from XM193 and some is better than others. It's a 1/7 twist barrel and some of those shoot 55gr bullets OK and others don't shoot it worth a damn. One reason I like 1/9 barrels is because I have so much mil surp 55gr to shoot. If 55gr was all you were testing with I wouldn't be too concerned at first. That said I can't think of any of my 1/7 barrels that only get 6 MOA with anybodies mil surp 55gr.

PRIVI 62 gr has a pretty good rep though and your Sierra HPBT's hand loads certainly should have tightened up those groups to better than 3 MOA. I've heard that the company that makes the barrels for Spikes also makes them for Daniel Defense but I don't remember the company name. I'll try and find out who it is.

Before you give up on it you might also try shooting some 75 gr bullets thru it. They might shoot a lot better. I'd love to hear how it shoots with 75 gr rounds.

 

[CAMike]

Thanks Rocketman. I'll make up some 77 Sierra's at mag length and see how they do- probably be this weekend. I'm not going to make up any 80 grain Sierra's as I decline to single load load this particular rifle. I hope they call me back at some point.

Are you confident on the 4MOA as max Mil-Spec? Can you PM me a link to the documentation that describes the 4MOA Mil-Spec criteria? I heard it was 2" from one gent and 3" from another. Additional Range Report to follow if no call back from Spikes Tactical.

 

[Rocketman]

Thanks Rocketman. I'll make up some 77 Sierra's at mag length and see how they do- probably be this weekend. I'm not going to make up any 80 grain Sierra's as I decline to single load load this particular rifle. I hope they call me back at some point.

Are you confident on the 4MOA as max Mil-Spec? Can you PM me a link to the documentation that describes the 4MOA Mil-Spec criteria? I heard it was 2" from one gent and 3" from another. Additional Range Report to follow if no call back from Spikes Tactical.

I'll see if I can find a link of some kind to document the Mil Spec MOA requirements. I'm not certain it's 4 MOA. I could be thinking about M16 rifle Mil Spec accuracy requirements in general. I'd be surprised if M193 was expected to be 2 MOA tight though. Especially in a 1/7 barrel.

You should be able to get your hands on a box of Hornady .223 or 5.56 TAP fairly easily at your local fun store. It uses a 75gr BTHP round. Most run of the mill 1/7 barrels shoot it very well. That will give you another easy data point.

Edited....
Here is the link for M193...http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-STD/MIL-STD+(1400+-+1499)/download.php?spec=MIL-STD-1453.008391.pdf

It says:

4.1.1,, Accuracy - The average of the mean radii of all targets of the sample cartridges, fired in accordance with MIL-C-9963 during normal lot acceptance testing, over a 200 yard range, shall be not less than 1.2 inch nor greater than 1.4 inch.​

Which I think means somewhere between just over 2 and just under 3 MOA. The SS109 using the M855 round is 3-4 MOA.

Couple of things to keep in mind. The M193 standard is dated 1971. My guess is that they would probably have been using more 55 gr friendly 1/12 twist barrels to test with. The M16A1's I was issued in the late 70's all had 1/12 twist. They wouldn't have been using a 1/7 barrel to meet the spec for sure. Also, I think I'm correct in saying that by definition any true mil surp round like the M193 can't be sold as surplus unless it doesn't "meet spec" somehow. That's why it all says XM193. Could have been a lot of things but it's possible that it didn't meet the accuracy spec. You could consider trying some out of another lot.

Bottom line is out to 100 yrds some 1/7's shoot 55 gr ok and some don't. If it won't shoot 62 to 75 gr bullets better than 3 MOA then I wouldn't be thrilled with it either.

 

[A4sForever]

This may not be any benefit for you guys -- but here's an in depth, comprehensive treatise on the .223 cartridge (actually .224), etc. ....

.223 Remington Cartridge Guide

 

[CAMike]

A nice update - Tom, CEO of Spike's emailed me back and has authorized a return and inspection of my upper. Hopefully they take it to the range and upon verification of the issue -replace the barrel. So far so good. (Apparently they like email much better than phone calls.) I'll keep you posted.

That's a good link above A4's, thank you.

 

[nittany03]

You should be able to get your hands on a box of Hornady .223 or 5.56 TAP fairly easily at your local fun store. It uses a 75gr BTHP round. Most run of the mill 1/7 barrels shoot it very well. That will give you another easy data point.

I'd be interested in any comparison numbers from M4gery owners. I've got a Sabre Defence one that gets no less than 3 inch groups at 100yds with Hornaday Match ammo, 1:7 barrel with MOE (non-free-floated) handguards. Not sure how this compares to the average of the breed, whether it'd be worth shelling out any $$$ for a match barrel, floated, with a new gas block, or whether I'm getting all I could get anyway with the 16" barrel.

 

[Bevo16]

My Rock River did this in 5 consecutive shots (3 hits on the dime, two on the target) shooting from my tailgate at 25 yards with an EO Tech. My groups at 100 yards go out to about 3 inches, but that's unmagnified, still shooting from a tailgate or standing. I shoot a lot of steel, and I am 100% from 150 in.

One of these days I am going to put a scope on it, shoot from a real bench rest and see what it will do. I am pretty damn pleased so far with Rock River.

This is the rifle in question:

Dri-fit socks not included or required.

 

[CumminsPilot]

My Rock River did this in 5 consecutive shots (3 hits on the dime, two on the target) shooting from my tailgate at 25 yards with an EO Tech. [/QUOTE]

At 25 yards you should be able to throw the loaded round by hand and hit the dime 3/5 times. ;)

 

[A4sForever]

F.Y.I. ..... MilSpec - a Discussion: what it is, what it ain't, at least according to contributing editor Cameron Hopkins of The American Rifleman ... a timely article for the discussion from the NRA??

Can a Civilian AR be classified as MilSpec ???

The Specs of MilSpec

 

[insanebikerboy]

Range update for my Spike's build today. Finally got back from Fallon and found time to test it out. I used two separate rounds, a box of .223 Remington 55gr hollow point from Wally World and a 55gr fmj factory reload. Weather was marginal to crappy with intermittent thunder showers. Shot from the prone position using bone support with no sling. I wish I had pictures but the rain ruined all the targets to the point they basically disintegrated on the way home. I shot a magazine at 25 yards to sight in and then moved it out to 100 yards to test it out. Iron sights, stock post up front with a Magpul flip up on back.

Anyways, I use 5 shot groups, not three (it's a holdover from days on Navy Pistol). Best group was 1.1 inches and worst group was 2.7 inches. Average over 150 rounds was a little less than 2 inches. Best came with the Remington shells and surprisingly the worst came with the Remington. The factory reloads were rather consistent. I ended up putting about 400 rounds downrange today and no failures to feed or any other type of misfire.

I'm pleased with the results. I could probably get better groups if I put a slimmer front sight post and a smaller diameter rear sight. That said, this is by no means a match rifle so I'm not going to worry myself that much with gnats ass accuracy (that's what my custom match grade M-1 is for )

Not bad at all for an M-4 with a little over $800 in it and a lifetime warranty to boot! :icon_smil

 

[Rocketman]

I've decided to go through my AR collection and cull the herd a bit, with fewer numbers and better quality being the goal. I picked up a couple of Colt 6920's a few months ago but I don't plan to shoot them for a while. I sold a couple of "parts guns" I built on cheapo LMR lowers. With that cash I bought 2 very nice BCM uppers. ( http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/AR15_BCM_Upper_Receiver_Groups_s/21.htm )

One is a 16" carbine upper that I mounted on a Spikes lower. The other is a 14.5" carbine upper with pinned flash suppressor that I mounted on my favorite RRA lower. I think the BCM/RRA is going to be one of my favorite AR's. It's got a great trigger and I love the LMT SOPMOD stock. Plus the shorter barrel put's it that much closer to a "real" M4. Important for us wannaby's. My eyes are terrible so I guess it will end up with an EoTech or Aimpoint mounted but I almost hate to do it. Somehow this one just looks right with the carry handle sights.

It was rainy and windy today but I took the BCM/RRA out just long enough to get it on paper at 25 yards. I hope to shoot it this weekend at 100 yrds. Best group is shown shot with 5.56 TAP. 4 in one hole with a 5th flyer. Looks like it's going to out shoot me and that's as good as it needs to be.

I'd be interested in any comparison numbers from M4gery owners. I've got a Sabre Defence one that gets no less than 3 inch groups at 100yds with Hornaday Match ammo, 1:7 barrel with MOE (non-free-floated) handguards. Not sure how this compares to the average of the breed, whether it'd be worth shelling out any $$$ for a match barrel, floated, with a new gas block, or whether I'm getting all I could get anyway with the 16" barrel.

I don't have any personnel experience with Sabre but I've read they make quality stuff. Just like RRA, BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt etc I don't think they claim to make "match" weapons though. That said 3 in groups at 100 yrds might be within spec but that would be a bit disappointing to me. I know Hornaday Match ammo is good stuff but you might consider trying a couple of other high quality rounds to see if that helps. If it doesn't you might find that it's just as cheap to have another upper built rather than replacing the barrel, floating the handguard etc. Having two uppers is a good thing.