Solo versus PIC

[ryan1234]

None of this time is going towards any kind of rating, just logging time spent in an aircraft while performing a function other than ballast.

AOPA disagrees to a point. They actually just sent out one of their Q&As in their ePilot about being able to log "time" as a safety pilot (or even co-pilot), even if you're not rated in the plane. It's certainly not PIC, but they were saying it can still be logged as TT, instrument time, etc. Here's what they said (albeit without an FAR cited).

I do get what you're saying about not using it towards a rating now that I've reread that. But here's what's confusing me:

So if I'm acting as the safety pilot (as you wrote it), wouldn't that mean I'd then log PIC? I'm just trying to clarify, not arguing.

Yes it does.

And Hal's right... I re-read a couple FAA counsel letters that say basically verbatim what Hal is saying... to include the SIC part (which I was wrong about). Here is one of those letters...in agreement with Hal:

Dear Mr. Hicks:

This office received a memorandum from the Helena Flight Standards District Office on November 22, 1993, requesting a response to the following inquiry:

Two pilots (one private and one commercial, neither of which is a CFI) are flying cross-country VFR taking turns flying under the hood. How does the safety pilot log his time since he is a required crew person under the regulations?

The memorandum indicated that you presented this inquiry to the Helena FSDO, and the FSDO Manager requested that this office respond directly to you. Accordingly, the response to your inquiry is set forth below.

Prior to providing a specific response to your inquiry, it is appropriate to note here the distinction between serving as PIC and logging PIC time. PIC, as defined in FAR 1.1, means the pilot responsible for the operation and safety of an aircraft during flight time. FAR 61.51 pertains to the logging of PIC flight time, and it provides that a private or commercial pilot may log as PIC time only that flight time during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which he is rated, or when he is the sole occupant of the aircraft, or when he acts as PIC of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft, or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

Therefore, while it is not possible for two pilots to act as PIC simultaneously, it is possible for two pilots to log PIC flight time simultaneously. PIC flight time may be logged by both the PIC responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time in accordance with FAR 1.1, and the by the pilot who acts as the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft for which the pilot is rated under FAR 61.51.

Responding specifically to your inquiry, the pilot that is under the hood may log PIC time for that time in which he is the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft, provided that he or she is rated for that aircraft. The appropriately rated safety pilot may concurrently log as second-in-command (SIC) that time during which he or she is acting as safety pilot.
However, the two pilots may, prior to initiating the flight, agree that the safety pilot will be the PIC responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during the flight. If this is done, then the safety pilot may log all the flight time as PIC time in accordance with FAR 1.1 and the pilot under the hood may log, concurrently, all of the flight time during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time in accordance with FAR 61.51(c)(2)(i). In order to assist you further in this regard, enclosed please find a prior FAA interpretation concerning the logging of flight time under simulated instrument flight conditions.

I hope this response satisfactorily answers your questions.
Sincerely,

Philip Pompilio
Staff Attorney
FAA Regional Office
Office of the Chief Counsel

 

[Gatordev]

This doesn't negate anything you guys were saying above, but I got this in an email today and I found it helpful. It basically states what Ryan posted, but in a "See Spot run..." format, which was helpful for my dinosaur-sized brain.

In a recent Legal Interpretation, the FAA Office of the Chief Counsel responded to questions regarding the logging of pilot in command ("PIC") time and distribution of expenses when a safety pilot is used. The scenario presented involved two pilots, A and B, planning a Part 91 local VFR flight for the purpose of Pilot A satisfying instrument time or instrument currency requirements. Pilot A secured the aircraft (type certificated for one pilot crewmember), and Pilot B agreed to serve as a safety pilot during the portion of the flight that required a safety pilot. Both pilots held private pilot certificates and were qualified to act as PIC.

In addressing the logging of flight time, the Interpretation observed that FAR 91.109(b) prohibits a pilot from operating in simulated instrument flight without a safety pilot. Thus, during the simulated instrument portions of the flight Pilot B was a required crewmember. As a result, the Interpretation stated that Pilot B could log second in command ("SIC") time for the time in which Pilot A acted as PIC and was the sole manipulator of the controls during simulated instrument flight. It also noted that since Pilot A was acting as PIC during the simulated instrument portion of the flight, Pilot B would not be able to log PIC time under FAR 61.51(e). However, if Pilot B agreed to act as PIC for the simulated instrument portion of the flight, the Interpretation concludes "then Pilot B could log that time as PIC time under FAR 61.51 (e)(1)(iii) because he is acting as PIC of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the regulation under which the flight is being conducted." Additionally, as the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft for which Pilot A is rated, Pilot A would also be permitted to log the time as PIC time under FAR 61.51(e)(1)(i).

With respect to the question of whether Pilot B would be obligated to share expenses for the flight, the Interpretation initially observed that FAR 61.113(c) prohibits a private pilot acting as pilot in command from paying less than his or her pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers. In the scenario presented, Pilots A and B were both required crewmembers during the portion of the flight that is conducted in simulated instrument conditions. As a result, the Interpretation concludes that if Pilot B acts as PIC only during the simulated instrument portions of the flight, Pilot B would not be required to pay a pro-rata share of the operating expense of the flight under FAR 61.113(c) since Pilot B would not be acting as PIC on a flight carrying passengers.

This Interpretation highlights the FAA's distinction between "acting" as PIC for a flight versus logging time as PIC by virtue of being the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft. As you can see, this distinction has a direct bearing on how a safety pilot, or any other pilot for that matter, logs flight time. Understanding this distinction will help ensure that you are logging your flight time correctly whether you are acting as, or flying with, a safety pilot.

 

[Harrier Dude]

This doesn't negate anything you guys were saying above, but I got this in an email today and I found it helpful. It basically states what Ryan posted, but in a "See Spot run..." format, which was helpful for my dinosaur-sized brain.

God help us.

Less lawyers, more pilots.