Solo versus PIC

[C420sailor]

I apologize in advance for this stupid question.

I was just going through my logbook and noticed that during IFS my solo time was logged under both 'Solo' and 'Pilot In Command'. Makes sense. I now have my PPL. When I'm signing for my own plane and going flying, do I just put my hours under PIC, or under Solo too? I tried surfing the FAR's but they didn't really spell it out well enough for my simple mind. Thanks!

 

[texasrebel05]

Depends... solo time is the time you are the "sole occupant of the aircraft." PIC time is when you are acting as PIC. So if you Mom is in the right seat, you still log it as PIC provided you meet all the requirements of 61.51.

Also, according to the definition of PIC under part 61, the PIC must be determined before the flight occurs. Which means if you and a buddy that are both private pilots go flying, you cannot both log PIC. One of you has to be designated beforehand as the PIC.

Here it is spelled out as in 61.51:
d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person?

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;

(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

Hope this helps!

 

[HAL Pilot]

Forget the horse crap in the previous answer.

Solo = non-licensed pilot flying solo as part of his training requirements. You will probably never log it again unless you fly a multi solo prior to getting your multi license.

PIC = either FAR part 1 HMFIC of the aircraft or part 61 sole manipulator of the controls. This is what you will log if you are flying alone.

Most logbooks do not even have a column for solo. It is logged under PIC with a comment in the remarks saying it was a "solo" flight for training/licensing requirements.

The previous answer may be technically correct, but in all my CFI, CFII & MEI training, recertification, etc. it has always been explained (including by the Feds) the way I just said. You fill out an 8710 with a bunch of solo time or apply for a commercial job with a bunch of solo time logged, and they will wonder what kind of flying idiot you are that took so much training. Solo didn't even exist when I was going for my private license.

 

[jtmedli]

Depends... solo time is the time you are the "sole occupant of the aircraft." PIC time is when you are acting as PIC. So if you Mom is in the right seat, you still log it as PIC provided you meet all the requirements of 61.51.

Also, according to the definition of PIC under part 61, the PIC must be determined before the flight occurs. Which means if you and a buddy that are both private pilots go flying, you cannot both log PIC. One of you has to be designated beforehand as the PIC.

I believe you can both log it if one pilot acts as the safety pilot and the other pilot flies "under the hood" the whole time. Don't have my FAR/AIM to cite the reg. though.

 

[jtmedli]

I apologize in advance for this stupid question.

I was just going through my logbook and noticed that during IFS my solo time was logged under both 'Solo' and 'Pilot In Command'. Makes sense. I now have my PPL. When I'm signing for my own plane and going flying, do I just put my hours under PIC, or under Solo too? I tried surfing the FAR's but they didn't really spell it out well enough for my simple mind. Thanks!

All your time goes under PIC from now on unless otherwise affected by another pilot in the aircraft (i.e. CFI or your not the PIC). See my previous post.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I believe you can both log it if one pilot acts as the safety pilot and the other pilot flies "under the hood" the whole time. Don't have my FAR/AIM to cite the reg. though.

That is PIC you are talking about. If the safety pilot is the HMFIC in charge of the aircraft. If the guy under the hood is the HMFIC, then the safety pilot can log SIC as he is now a required crew member.

 

[jtmedli]

That is PIC you are talking about. If the safety pilot is the HMFIC in charge of the aircraft. If the guy under the hood is the HMFIC, then the safety pilot can log SIC as he is now a required crew member.

Well said sir. I haven't flown in a while so I'm a little rusty!! I'm almost done building instrument time and not really sure if I wanna finish the rating.

 

[C420sailor]

Excellent, that makes sense. Thank you!

 

[FlyinRock]

There is no requirement to log any time unless to prove experience for a rating, or to prove recency like take offs and landings to carry pax, or a flight review, etc.
If you plan to move up to commercial, or higher, take a look at the regs to see the numbers of hours required solo or specifically how you need to log the time. Anything past that you can put it any way you want! Keep in mind though, if you get involved in an incident or accident, one of the first things they're gonna look at is your logbook and if its written in the log, its gonna be taken as pretty final - good or bad.
Now that you are a licensed pilot, if you are HMFIC as HAL puts it, thats all there is to it! The other issues have been covered pretty well.

 

[Gatordev]

I apologize in advance for this stupid question.

I was just going through my logbook and noticed that during IFS my solo time was logged under both 'Solo' and 'Pilot In Command'. Makes sense. I now have my PPL. When I'm signing for my own plane and going flying, do I just put my hours under PIC, or under Solo too? I tried surfing the FAR's but they didn't really spell it out well enough for my simple mind. Thanks!

Are you asking strictly for the civilian side or for when you solo a T-34/T-44? I can't remember if you're still in Primary or not, which is why I ask.

 

[C420sailor]

Yes, I'm still in Primary. I've been logging all of that time as Dual Received since I don't sign for the A/C.

 

[Gatordev]

Yes, I'm still in Primary. I've been logging all of that time as Dual Received since I don't sign for the A/C.

That's why I asked. Just something to keep in mind is that most if not all of the IPs are not CFIs, so it's not apples to apples for the civilian side.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Yes, I'm still in Primary. I've been logging all of that time as Dual Received since I don't sign for the A/C.

That's why I asked. Just something to keep in mind is that most if not all of the IPs are not CFIs, so it's not apples to apples for the civilian side.

Gator is right. I would just log it under total time with a comment in the remarks saying it was military flight training and the type of training received.

I'm going to take this all a step further. In my logbook, I do not log PIC for sole manipulator. I decided early that I wanted to go to the airlines and they only count part 1 HMFIC PIC. If I have a "dual received" entry, there is no corresponding PIC entry, just total time. It keeps the math easy too: PIC (or Solo) + SIC + Dual Received = Total Time. And this is the math equation airline interviewers do when they look at your logbook. If there is a big difference between the left and right sides of the equation, they start looking deeper.

Of course, the only thing I log anymore is SIC & total time and then I just do it once a month.

My July 2009 logbook entry:
Date: July 2009
Acft Make & Model: 767-300
SIC: 55.7
Total Time: 55.7
Remarks: Hawaiian Airlines

It just makes record keeping so much easier.....

 

[gonad]

That is PIC you are talking about. If the safety pilot is the HMFIC in charge of the aircraft. If the guy under the hood is the HMFIC, then the safety pilot can log SIC as he is now a required crew member.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both pilots could log PIC (safety pilot and sim instr. pilot) ... no need for SIC in a single pilot airplane, right?

Also, if you were going for a civilian commercial without military comp., you would need solo xc requirements even if you have a PPL.

 

[C420sailor]

Ok, so 'Dual Received' means time that I received instruction from a CFI? I thought it was just time flying while not acting as PIC.

So for Primary flights I should just be logging the TT and leave the PIC/Solo/Dual columns blank except for a solo flight?