Soldiers Sue Over Army’s Stop-Loss Policy

[Clux4]

The problem I personally have with alot of the people shouting about a soldier not being unpatriotic is this. Majority of you guys have not been in the sand box and do not have intentions to , because if you did you will not come to the aviation side or join other services and I am not putting anyone down becuase if you are not cut out for it you are just not. I have personally had my fear share of running around, I look forward to a more relax one but notwithstanding ever ready to do what is necessary.
With that being said, you should not poke fingers at this folks. Obviously everyone is seeing that the whole war is getting too long and demanding more than we can afford to give, even though we do not wish to admit this. Was the leadership at fault, yes they were but no one is perfect. Nothing in a war ever goes as planned, if it did then almost everyone will be a hero.
My whole yapping sums up to this, this guys are not wrong but you should not just write them off as unpatriotic.

 

[Godspeed]

Dude, by your posts you aren't even in the military, are going to supply, and yet you feel qualified to punk out combat vets who are deployed in an assymetric combat zone. If that makes sense to you, have a nut. Useless arguing.
Cheers

You completely missed the point I was making. FOR THE MOST PART, THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT EVEN IN THE "COMBAT ZONE." In fact, 2 of suing soldiers are here in the United States!!! Yeah, that sure as hell is a dangerous combat zone if i've ever seen one. I don't know about you Odom, but I am deeply concerned for their safety. Two more of the suing soldiers are in Kuwait, which isn't home by any means, but is one of the safest places to be in the middle east.

I am not "punking out," combat veterens. How can you associate any sort of prestige with someone that sues the military for making them endure a couple extra months of service stationed in the U.S.?

Before you blindly challenge someones credibility and reputation, you should consider the validity of your arguments.

 

[wink]

There is no need for a draft and most of you guys no that from your own experiences. If the congress and the admistration wanted more troops all they would have to do is put some of those NROTC grads they sent home to work, keep the undesignated line officers they let go and simply raise the end strength and let recruiters do their jobs. It is difficult to get in the Navy now because there are few opennings and lots of applicants. If we opened the door we could fill many more jobs. Talk of a draft is short sighted if not ignorant. You draft people when you simply can not get them to do the job of their own free will. Americans may not join in large enough numbers for several reasons, like uncompetitive pay and benefits, lack of support of the military or engaged conflicts, unreasonable contract requirements, lack of career opportunity, unsuitable culture or personal comfort level, or simply a percieved future opportunity loss cost. Currently not enough Americans have the above concerns to keep them from military service. We simply have an authorized force structure that is strained. If we want more troops they are walking the streets and in our high schools to be hired. So enough about a draft.

 

[FlyingDoc]

Dude, by your posts you aren't even in the military, are going to supply, and yet you feel qualified to punk out combat vets who are deployed in an assymetric combat zone. If that makes sense to you, have a nut. Useless arguing.

Cheers

Chill out mano; just cause Godspeed isn't "deployed in an assymetric combat zone" doesn't mean he would go if he could. Everyone bashes on the people who aren't in the military yet, and this is just another example. Just because he isn't in, doesn't mean he doesn't have the heart for it. Just because he isn't as bitter as you doesn't give you the right to start taking pot shots.

 

[squeeze]

The problem I personally have with alot of the people shouting about a soldier not being unpatriotic is this. Majority of you guys have not been in the sand box and do not have intentions to , because if you did you will not come to the aviation side or join other services and I am not putting anyone down becuase if you are not cut out for it you are just not. I have personally had my fear share of running around, I look forward to a more relax one but notwithstanding ever ready to do what is necessary.

First off, that ranks up there as possibly the stupidest, most uninformed post I have yet to see on this site (and that's saying a LOT).

Secondly, this is not an issue of patriotism... it's an issue of duty. You sign the line, you reap the outcome. Sure, stop losses suck for those involved, but it's not a secret that they occur. And yes, while I'm not affected by it, I feel the govt really needs to come up with an alternate solution than indefinite stop losses, because eventually, it's going to zap too much morale.

Finally, how dare you try to lessen one's dedication to duty by implying they want the easy way out by going aviation. How do you justify saying someone is not cut out for something when you haven't earned jack sh-t? Just because someone chooses aviation has no bearing on their desire to fight. It remarks like that that make me want to choke the sh-t out of some people on this site.

 

[sirenia]

Just wanted to make clear that the idea here is to present various arguments based on the situation. NO POT SHOTS PLEASE!!!!

 

[Godspeed]

^and that is what happens when you tell a marine aviator not he's not "cut out" to fight. Bad idea Clux.

Again, I STRESS, that none of these people are charging Omaha Beach, they are (for the most part) sitting on U.S. soil, or safe military bases throughout the world. So the whole "You can't comment on this because you don't have 10 purple hearts," argument just doesn't fly here.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Just wanted to make clear that the idea here is to present various arguments based on the situation.

Yea, well just look at what you did.

 

[snizo]

So ... let me get this straight. Some people who voluntarily joined the service ... got sent to do something they knew might happen ... want to get out of the service even though the government could have forced them in in the first palce with a draft (but didn't) ... are complaining that this isn't fair?

Guess the "patriotism" they joined for only extended to a few days per year...


VarmintShooter -

I don't know that we can really plan for this stuff. We are doing admissions now for ROTC to start next Fall. Do you really think we are going to be able to say for sure how many miliitary officers we will need in 5 years? I couldn't ... could you?

 

[VarmintShooter]

I don't know that we can really plan for this stuff. We are doing admissions now for ROTC to start next Fall. Do you really think we are going to be able to say for sure how many miliitary officers we will need in 5 years? I couldn't ... could you?

I can't, but these folks get paid to do it:

https://www.mpm.osd.mil/owa/jrio/pkg_jrio.page?id=S&wgsid=

(click on the "Military Personnel Human Resources Strategic Plan" if you have some time to read it - check the appendixes)

I think we can plan for this sort of thing ...

 

[samadma]

I think everyone in this forum is right in some regard. However, legally ALL reservist can be activated for up to 2 years regardless of service. Therefore, it will be interesting how the courts will view the law suits. I see how someone would want to give a little time to their country in terms of being "weekend warriors." I understand that no one likes to be taken from their "comfort zones" for long periods of time. However, I'm sure the reservists that do their 20+ years and get their retirement checks, or reaping any military benefits from the Service aren't complaining.

Not to call anyone a cry baby because I've been to the “sand box” and everyone wines a little after month 5 or 6 of being there. However, I think the difference is that the generation of people in the Armed Forces today don't have the same "intestinal fortitude” that someone in WWII or the Korean War had to just “suck it up” and simply get the job done. Vice getting on TV or radio to spout about how life sucks. Bottom line is you signed; therefore, serve regardless of the weather of the situation.

As far as extending people pass their time. I don’t think that’s right because again there’s a legal expectation, and a moral issue that comes with that. Also, you turn volunteers into almost a draftee status when you hold them past their EAS. I guess that’s why the Marine Corps is not currently using stop loss/stop move to retain service members.

 

[Clux4]

Finally, how dare you try to lessen one's dedication to duty by implying they want the easy way out by going aviation. How do you justify saying someone is not cut out for something when you haven't earned jack sh-t? Just because someone chooses aviation has no bearing on their desire to fight. It remarks like that that make me want to choke the sh-t out of some people on this site.

O.k, I don't need to give you my life story here but how do you know I have not served?

I never said anyone was looking for the easy way out. If sh!t ain't for you, It is just not for you. It does not mean you strengths cannot be used else where. The funny thing is that I know for a fact that some of the air contract guys where like **** this ground sh!t after TBS. Does it make you a lesser Marine, no because the guy on the ground might not be able to hold it together when you stick him in an aircraft. Does this then make him of a lesser Marine, No. You know what, if we stick them where they both belong they will do just fine supporting the war. Capish ?

Now let me now ask you, when was the last time you were in combat? I am not saying this to belittle you or anything but when someone does not want to be there why do you want them carrying a freaking M-16 beside you?

 

[wink]

Not many of us "want" to be in combat, at least the kind you are talking about. But absolutely no one should put pen to paper and join any branch of the service for any MOS or designator (save Chaplain and Med Corps) if they are not going to follow orders that put them in harms way and require them to kill. I am quite certain that vitrually everyone in close combat in Iraq or Afganistan "does not want to be there", yet they are. So what makes those guys so different form the ones refusing to follow orders that keep them on active duty, maybe even in the rear area? The difference is the ones that want out are not willing to sacrifice, what ever it is they think is more important, for their fellow soldiers, sailors and Marines. They think their problems are more important than Pfc Jones' problems. Or maybe they think they don't have the ability to deal with the same fear Corpsman Doe experiences (courage?). It all boils down to someone putting themselves ahead of others that expected to rely on him. What they promised the government, and their shipmates is less important then getting married, getting a job or going to school. And yes, Clux, beside me, with M-16, on a damage control team, or in my HUMMV is right where I want that kind of individual. Most of them will perform when given no other chance. The rest will be motivated, but they will do their duty, whatever it is they come to be trusted with, so that others do not have to take up the slack for them. And when they go home the vast majority of them will be proud of their contribution.

 

[bennett4362]

very well said, wink.

 

[sirenia]

Second what bennett4362 posted. Well stated.