USN Showdown between Super Hornet and F-35

[Randy Daytona]

Some more from the Commandant.

Berger: Marine 2030 Force Design Is Nearly Complete; Concepts Now Being Modeled, Tested

He also noted expeditionary ships, commercial ships and other alternative platforms would have a place in future operations to supplement traditional amphibious warships. “What I know will not work is a few dozen gray-hull L-class ships by themselves. They will be targets. We need them, but we need much more than just that,” he said.... And we need to really think creatively about how we embark forces and systems on platforms that are not necessarily an LPD-17 or a Flight II or an LHA/LHD. If they’re floating, we need to figure out how to use it.”

https://news.usni.org/2019/10/03/be...ly-complete-concepts-now-being-modeled-tested


Berger: Marines Focused on China in Developing New Way to Fight in the Pacific

https://news.usni.org/2019/10/02/be...in-developing-new-way-to-fight-in-the-pacific

 

[Randy Daytona]

Another article on the Lightning Carrier concept. Interesting note is that according to the article, the LPD's electronics might be better than the LHA's. At any rate, looks like 13 F-35's on the roof. Combined with a tanker V-22 and some type of AEW (Osprey or drone), this is starting to look pretty good.

Marines Test ‘Lightning Carrier’ Concept, Control 13 F-35Bs from Multiple Amphibs
https://news.usni.org/2019/10/23/ma...ncept-control-13-f-35bs-from-multiple-amphibs

 

[Brett327]

There's no such thing as an AEW Osprey or drone, and no such Program of Record to procure one.

 

[Pags]

There's no such thing as an AEW Osprey or drone, and no such Program of Record to procure one.

There's been talk of MUX having an AEW capability

Check out the massive âdo-it-allâ drone that Marines could choose as their wingman

The drone would be able to coordinate fires across the battlefield.

www.marinecorpstimes.com

 

[Brett327]

Talk is cheap.

 

[BarryD]

There's been talk of MUX having an AEW capability

Check out the massive âdo-it-allâ drone that Marines could choose as their wingman

The drone would be able to coordinate fires across the battlefield.

www.marinecorpstimes.com

Jack of all trades, master of none? Swiss Army knife with rotors?

 

[Randy Daytona]

There's been talk of MUX having an AEW capability

Check out the massive âdo-it-allâ drone that Marines could choose as their wingman

The drone would be able to coordinate fires across the battlefield.

www.marinecorpstimes.com

The way the Commandant is talking concerning the increased threats, the gators will be looking at something similar to this. Likewise, you have Japan's Izumo jump carriers, the UK's Queen Elizabeth jump carriers - everyone is looking for some type of tilt rotor tanker and AEW support and this will happen. Being a tilt-rotor, you could even park these on an accompanying LPD to free up more room for F-35's on the big deck.

V-247 is good sized. All up weight of 29,000 lbs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_V-247_Vigilant

 

[nittany03]

Being a tilt-rotor, you could even park these on an accompanying LPD to free up more room for F-35's on the big deck.

Be interesting to see how they use it. My Gator Navy experience is mostly CAOC-based, seeing as I'm a reservist. But generally, that isn't anything new. The LHD seems to usually be the home for all the non-skid-based assets of the ACE, be they plopters, shitters, or jets. The skid kids seem to deploy on the LPD anyway.

 

[Swanee]

There's been talk of MUX having an AEW capability

Check out the massive âdo-it-allâ drone that Marines could choose as their wingman

The drone would be able to coordinate fires across the battlefield.

www.marinecorpstimes.com

MUX is going to do everything- but when you start asking how, you suddenly realize that all of those lightning bolts on the power point slide are fairy dust future tech BS answers.

And then ask- where is the GCS going to go on the boat? And how will the guys flying it talk to it? And what if the boat needs to go emcon?? More fairy dust...

 

[Flash]

The way the Commandant is talking concerning the increased threats, the gators will be looking at something similar to this. Likewise, you have Japan's Izumo jump carriers, the UK's Queen Elizabeth jump carriers - everyone is looking for some type of tilt rotor tanker and AEW support and this will happen. Being a tilt-rotor, you could even park these on an accompanying LPD to free up more room for F-35's on the big deck.

V-247 is good sized. All up weight of 29,000 lbs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_V-247_Vigilant

The fact that folks just wave around the MUX as the solution to all sorts of issues, AEW being a notable one, shows how little this issue has been taken seriously by folks who actually know what they are doing. CVL-based helicopter AEW works for the Brits and Italians but their capability is nowhere near what an E-2 or much less an AWACS can provide, not just in the radar but endurance and overall sustainability. Trying to do it with a UAV would be interesting to say the least and would almost certainly take FAR more work than anyone proposing this realizes. Couple that with the fact that Marines haven't ever done AEW and they are more than willing to cut 'non-core' capabilities that cost money like electronic attack that they have had for ages makes this idea nothing more than an a company's artist depiction for the near and likely far future.

 

[Brett327]

The fact that folks just wave around the MUX as the solution to all sorts of issues, AEW being a notable one, shows how little this issue has been taken seriously by folks who actually know what they are doing. CVL-based helicopter AEW works for the Brits and Italians but their capability is nowhere near what an E-2 or much less an AWACS can provide, not just in the radar but endurance and overall sustainability. Trying to do it with a UAV would be interesting to say the least and would almost certainly take FAR more work than anyone proposing this realizes. Couple that with the fact that Marines haven't ever done AEW and they are more than willing to cut 'non-core' capabilities that cost money like electronic attack that they have had for ages makes this idea nothing more than an a company's artist depiction for the near and likely far future.

Also, it's a Randy post, which is by definition a wild fantasy.

 

[Flash]

Also, it's a Randy post, which is by definition a wild fantasy.

Not untrue, unfortuantely I've seen this 'bright idea' surface in a few other places to include some that should know better.

 

[phrogdriver]

It wouldn’t compare to an E-2, but it is vastly superior to what is currently on amphibious ships—nothing.
If you think of it less in terms of C2 and more in terms of early warning, it makes sense. You have something with a lot greater radar horizon letting you know when to scramble the F-35s or get to GQ.
There are far fewer aircraft to control on an LHA/LHD, and probably little requirement to control other aircraft, so the demands placed on it will be far less, in any case.

 

[Hotdogs]

It wouldn’t compare to an E-2, but it is vastly superior to what is currently on amphibious ships—nothing.
If you think of it less in terms of C2 and more in terms of early warning, it makes sense. You have something with a lot greater radar horizon letting you know when to scramble the F-35s or get to GQ.
There are far fewer aircraft to control on an LHA/LHD, and probably little requirement to control other aircraft, so the demands placed on it will be far less, in any case.

“...bUt tHe MahrInES HaVe NeVeR DoNe aEw BeFoRe!!”

Sorry I had to get that comment in with regards to that ridiculous notion in a previous comment.

 

[Flash]

It wouldn’t compare to an E-2, but it is vastly superior to what is currently on amphibious ships—nothing.
If you think of it less in terms of C2 and more in terms of early warning, it makes sense. You have something with a lot greater radar horizon letting you know when to scramble the F-35s or get to GQ.
There are far fewer aircraft to control on an LHA/LHD, and probably little requirement to control other aircraft, so the demands placed on it will be far less, in any case.

I am not so sure it would be better due to the myriad complications of integrating a suitable radar on a reliable enough UAV to be able to do the job. Having observed how reliable current UAV's are I am not optimistic that all the required systems integration, from getting a suitable radar to making a new UAV work well enough, to make this workable enough to have a viable platform in the near future. Especially one with the necessary persistence for AEW support for a 'CVL' in a higher-threat area.

“...bUt tHe MahrInES HaVe NeVeR DoNe aEw BeFoRe!!”

Sorry I had to get that comment in with regards to that ridiculous notion in a previous comment.

While even Marines can be taught new tricks I think the learning curve for something like this would be pretty steep and more importanly, getting this off the ground, literally in this case, would be A LOT more expensive than most folks seem to assume. Add to the fact it isn't a core USMC mission and the Marines have been shedding, and try to continue to do so, non-core missions I still see this as more sales brochure artwork than a realistic alternative.

So less 'the Marines are a bunch of morons who can't do more than eat crayons' and more a dose a realism with a dash of cynicism.