USN Showdown between Super Hornet and F-35

[Randy Daytona]

I get the part about integrating the HSC Det and adding a HSM Det (thought there already was one?), but he talks about having an O6 CAG (or LAG, to "elevate" the dets embarked) when the ACE Commander is currently the VMM Skipper. I don't know if they'd just spot promote the VMM skipper or . . .?

Edit:
Just noticed one of the citations is Foxtrot Alpha . . .

I can not see the aviation commander outranking the battalion CO; some of the other command and control structures proposed seem unwieldy. Likewise, proposing that Humanitarian Assistance be a primary missions and then cutting Combat Services Support does not seem to match up.

Other parts of the article seemed worthy of more development: reducing the mission set for the MEU, incorporating the H-60 det into the ACE, the possibility of adding patrol boats if the circumstances dictated, and increasing the F-35 detachment from 6 to 8. Who knows, maybe the the MEU will deploy with a squadron of F-35's, attach helicopters as needed and the ACE CO will be the F-35 CO. With tanks going away and tube artillery being shrunk dramatically, the structure of each MEU (possibly to be individually tailored) will be interesting to watch.

BTW, the citation from Foxtrot Alpha was only a description of the Mark VI patrol boat to include a Navy slide that depicted how many could fit within the well deck of each amphib.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Bloomberg is reporting a big order for Boeing today.

Germany to Order 45 Fighter Jets From Boeing, Report Says

Germany to Order 45 Fighter Jets From Boeing, Report Says

Germany will order 45 fighter aircraft from Boeing Co. to replace the Luftwaffe’s aging Tornado jets, Der Spiegel magazine reported on Sunday.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Flash]

Bloomberg is reporting a big order for Boeing today.

Germany to Order 45 Fighter Jets From Boeing, Report Says

Germany to Order 45 Fighter Jets From Boeing, Report Says

Germany will order 45 fighter aircraft from Boeing Co. to replace the Luftwaffe’s aging Tornado jets, Der Spiegel magazine reported on Sunday.

www.bloomberg.com

A much more political decision than usual for a combat aircraft buy for them. The German political leaders want to retain its nuclear capability but the F-35 has become too much of a political hot potato in Germany for it to be bought, the chief of the German Air Force was publicly rebuked for preferring the F-35 two years go. Their likely preferred option, the Typhoon, apparently would cost too much money and too much information on the Typhoon than they are supposedly willing to give the US to get it certified. So they were left with only 2 other options and only one that had a ready Tornado ECR replacement, that isn't certified yet to carry nukes but likely could be.

 

[Randy Daytona]

A much more political decision than usual for an combat aircraft buy for them. The German political leaders want to retain its nuclear capability but the F-35 has become too much of a a political hot potato in Germany for it to be bought, the chief of the German Air Force was publicly rebuked for preferring the F-35 two years go. Their likely preferred option, the Typhoon, apparently would cost too much money and too much information on the Typhoon than they are supposedly willing to give the US to get it certified. So they were left with only 2 other options and only one that had a ready Tornado ECR replacement, that isn't certified yet to carry nukes but likely could be.

Good background info. Any thoughts on the proportion of Supers to Growlers: 30 F/A-18 Super Hornets and 15 EA-18G Growlers according to the report?

 

[Griz882]

Good background info. Any thoughts on the proportion of Supers to Growlers: 30 F/A-18 Super Hornets and 15 EA-18G Growlers according to the report?

Add to that question, any idea how the UK Tempest fighter program (excuse me...programme) fits into EU’s thinking?

 

[Brett327]

Good background info. Any thoughts on the proportion of Supers to Growlers: 30 F/A-18 Super Hornets and 15 EA-18G Growlers according to the report?

15 is about the minimum size fleet to have any sustained capability. It’s similar to what the RAAF bought.

 

[Flash]

Good background info. Any thoughts on the proportion of Supers to Growlers: 30 F/A-18 Super Hornets and 15 EA-18G Growlers according to the report?

15 is about the minimum size fleet to have any sustained capability. It’s similar to what the RAAF bought.

Even 15 is bit small, and only really feasible since they both have a larger Super Hornet fleet to go along with it and likely why they bought the Super Hornet instead of the F-15E. I think the Germans might be hoping for a Typhoon 'ECR' version eventually with 'hoping' being the operative word, just a paper proposal now that will cost a lot in development if they want a reasonable capability, but 15 Growlers will keep their EA capability alive for a while even without a Typhoon ECR.

Add to that question, any idea how the UK Tempest fighter program (excuse me...programme) fits into EU’s thinking?

I don't think it is much of a factor now, along with other future fighter ideas out there they are just proposals with a long way to being built as of right now. Give it 5-10 years.

Working with/for Brits right now the spelling thing can be a little annoying at times, it gets to be a pain when it comes to paperwork since they have a different way of doing things. Through Aussies into the mix and things get even more interesting.

 

[Brett327]

Even 15 is bit small, and only really feasible since they both have a larger Super Hornet fleet to go along with it and likely why they bought the Super Hornet instead of the F-15E. I think the Germans might be hoping for a Typhoon 'ECR' version eventually with 'hoping' being the operative word, just a paper proposal now that will cost a lot in development if they want a reasonable capability, but 15 Growlers will keep their EA capability alive for a while even without a Typhoon ECR.



I don't think it is much of a factor now, along with other future fighter ideas out there they are jus proposals with a long way to being built as of right now. Give it 5-10 years.

Working with/for Brits right now the spelling thing can be a little annoying at times, it gets to be a pain when it comes to paperwork since they have a different way of doing things. Through Aussies into the mix and things get even more interesting.

The better question: How will Germany use their Growlers w/o Q-99 pods. I haven't seen the terms of the deal, or talked with my NIPO contacts, but there just aren't any extra pods in our (or Australia's) inventory and NGJ FOC timelines push out past 2030. Conventional wisdom is that they'll probably be more of an ES vice EA platform for Germany in the short term. That's still a great capability that nobody else in EUCOM (including the US) will have.

 

[Gatordev]

Through Aussies into the mix...

I believe it's spelled "throwe."

 

[Flash]

The better question: How will Germany use their Growlers w/o Q-99 pods. I haven't seen the terms of the deal, or talked with my NIPO contacts, but there just aren't any extra pods in our (or Australia's) inventory and NGJ FOC timelines push out past 2030. Conventional wisdom is that they'll probably be more of an ES vice EA platform for Germany in the short term. That's still a great capability that nobody else in EUCOM (including the US) will have.

Maybe more Wild Weasel-ish? Their ECR's didn't have a very robust jamming capability from what I know.

 

[cfam]

Maybe more Wild Weasel-ish? Their ECR's didn't have a very robust jamming capability from what I know.

They could also think totally outside of the box and go for something like this: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/saabs-new-electronic-attack-jammer-pod-takes-to-the-air/
It’s currently only being tested on the Gripen, but Saab is pitching it as a multi-platform capable escort jamming and self-protect pod. If you’re not using Q99 and therefore not necessarily as worried about positioning the way we do, maybe you’re willing to accept a higher risk level. Who knows? It’s certainly an interesting thought experiment.

Regardless, I wish I could come back here on exchange!

 

[cfam]

The better question: How will Germany use their Growlers w/o Q-99 pods. I haven't seen the terms of the deal, or talked with my NIPO contacts, but there just aren't any extra pods in our (or Australia's) inventory and NGJ FOC timelines push out past 2030. Conventional wisdom is that they'll probably be more of an ES vice EA platform for Germany in the short term. That's still a great capability that nobody else in EUCOM (including the US) will have.

Agreed. Any clue what the Finns will do about pods if they buy in as well?

 

[Flash]

They could also think totally outside of the box and go for something like this: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/saabs-new-electronic-attack-jammer-pod-takes-to-the-air/
It’s currently only being tested on the Gripen, but Saab is pitching it as a multi-platform capable escort jamming and self-protect pod. If you’re not using Q99 and therefore not necessarily as worried about positioning the way we do, maybe you’re willing to accept a higher risk level. Who knows? It’s certainly an interesting thought experiment.

Not a new idea but not a very well developed one outside a handful of countries, at least with the escort jamming. With NGJ delayed a bit and the further proliferation of higher-end SAM's maybe the time has come for an expanded market.

 

[Brett327]

Agreed. Any clue what the Finns will do about pods if they buy in as well?

Asked my NIPO contact about it today, but he had nothing. I'll see if 265 has any info on either of those FMS cases.

 

[nittany03]

The better question: How will Germany use their Growlers w/o Q-99 pods. I haven't seen the terms of the deal, or talked with my NIPO contacts, but there just aren't any extra pods in our (or Australia's) inventory and NGJ FOC timelines push out past 2030. Conventional wisdom is that they'll probably be more of an ES vice EA platform for Germany in the short term. That's still a great capability that nobody else in EUCOM (including the US) will have.

Agreed. Any clue what the Finns will do about pods if they buy in as well?

Buy a crapton of HARM/AARGM? ¯\(ツ)/¯