Should Offensive Material be censored?

[jander12]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...my-removes-bible-verse-from-cadet-whiteboard/

< 1% of the student body at the USAFA complained about a Bible verse on a students white board which is outside his room door (visible from the hallway)... this led to it being officially erased.

"It clearly elevated one religious faith (fundamentalist Christianity) over all others at an already virulently hyper-fundamentalist Christian institution," he said. "It massively poured fundamentalist Christian gasoline on an already raging out-of-control conflagration of fundamentalist Christian tyranny, exceptionalism and supremacy at USAFA."

 

[jander12]

Stupid keyboard... title should say, "...Censored?"

 

[Recovering LSO]

"It clearly elevated one religious faith (fundamentalist Christianity) over all others at an already virulently hyper-fundamentalist Christian institution," he said. "It massively poured fundamentalist Christian gasoline on an already raging out-of-control conflagration of fundamentalist Christian tyranny, exceptionalism and supremacy at USAFA."

hyperbole much?

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

Whoa, they get to call it a whiteboard? That's way too offensive for OCS, where we were told to refer to it as the "visual aid panel."

I think it's about where to draw the line. If it had been a quote from the Quran, it might have marginalized quite a few more people. So if you were to then say, "Don't post quotes from the Quran," then you'd necessarily have to include all religious texts. You're free to practice whichever religion you want, but you have to be mindful that everyone else is too.

 

[Spekkio]

1- While 29 people is not a lot in the aggregate student/staff pool at USAFA, it may be a significant amount higher than the people who normally complain. It usually takes quite a bit to get people to file a formal complaint, even if they don't actually like something, so it's not surprising that the number is not going to be a majority.

2- The director of a religious freedom group should not be so outspoken and angry about a student writing a benign bible verse on his personal whiteboard. He should be balancing the religious rights of varying groups, not going after the head of a student who posted a relatively benign verse. Want it taken down from public space because non-Christian students perceive that Christianity is being shoved in their face at every turn? Fine, but you're fighting the effect and not the cause. Want to punish the student for it? Absurd. Publicly call the USAFA a viruntly hyper-fundamentalist Christian institution engaging in tyranny and exceptionalism? There's the door.

I think it's about where to draw the line. If it had been a quote from the Quran, it might have marginalized quite a few more people. So if you were to then say, "Don't post quotes from the Quran," then you'd necessarily have to include all religious texts. You're free to practice whichever religion you want, but you have to be mindful that everyone else is too.

I think that as long as the verse isn't explicitly or implicitly being used as a basis for attack on another group of people (e.g gays, blacks, women, non-believers), it's fine. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Pags]

hyperbole much?

I think if you're going to use hyperbole, it's kind of required to use a lot

 

[AllYourBass]

The student should be free to exercise his First Amendment right to write Bible quotes on his own whiteboard, provided the speech act in question doesn't infringe on other people's rights or blatantly offend non-believers (e.g., something like "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." [1 Timothy 2:12] ). I'm all about rationalism versus superstition, and I know what it feels like to be a non-believer in places where you'd be treated negatively for that claim. That doesn't mean it's a valid response to crush religious speech.

EDIT: Also, I don't know what this hyperbolic shitstorm from the director at the Military Religious Freedom Foundation is referring to: "It clearly elevated one religious faith (fundamentalist Christianity) over all others at an already virulently hyper-fundamentalist Christian institution," he said. "It massively poured fundamentalist Christian gasoline on an already raging out-of-control conflagration of fundamentalist Christian tyranny, exceptionalism and supremacy at USAFA."

Is the USAFA in particular notorious for endorsing Christianity, or is the accuser referring to the general Christian doctrine that has found its way into our federal institution?

 

[Flash]

Mikey Weinstein, a USAFA grad and the driving force behind the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, has been a critic of the USAFA for a while on the subject of religion. Any controversy that pops up there WRT to religion and he is usually in the mix and he often comments on the military in general as well but his focus has long been the USAFA. Some of his criticisms have been valid, notably with what spurred him in the beginning when some proselytizing at the USAFA seems to have gone a bit out of bounds, but since then he seems to be a magnet for this kind of stuff justified or not. I believe he and his organization are well known at the USAFA so it is no surprise that folks would complain to him in particular.

All that said religious proselytizing or religious displays that are particularly overt are restricted for good reason in today's military, that would include many religious verses that are overtly so (not all are, this one was though). And just to point out the obvious but we don't have all the rights our fellow Americans have after we raise our right hand, that includes freedom of speech. And while Mr. Weinstein's reaction is a bit hyperbolic the linked op-ed piece was too.

Two observations about the attached photo; 1 - I am not sure it was a cadet's 'personal' whiteboard, it appears to be next to the duty section posting and at the very least could be implied to be official, 2- What if anything was in the erased part?

Finally, it was a Bible verse on whiteboard and not cadets being thrown to the lions, tortured on the rack or burned at the stake. Suck it up and get over it.

 

[LFCFan]

EDIT: Also, I don't know what this hyperbolic shitstorm from the director at the Military Religious Freedom Foundation is referring to: "It clearly elevated one religious faith (fundamentalist Christianity) over all others at an already virulently hyper-fundamentalist Christian institution," he said. "It massively poured fundamentalist Christian gasoline on an already raging out-of-control conflagration of fundamentalist Christian tyranny, exceptionalism and supremacy at USAFA."

Is the USAFA in particular notorious for endorsing Christianity, or is the accuser referring to the general Christian doctrine that has found its way into our federal institution?

2- The director of a religious freedom group should not be so outspoken and angry about a student writing a benign bible verse on his personal whiteboard. He should be balancing the religious rights of varying groups, not going after the head of a student who posted a relatively benign verse. Want it taken down from public space because non-Christian students perceive that Christianity is being shoved in their face at every turn? Fine, but you're fighting the effect and not the cause. Want to punish the student for it? Absurd. Publicly call the USAFA a viruntly hyper-fundamentalist Christian institution engaging in tyranny and exceptionalism? There's the door.

Weinstein, a USAFA grad, has been a crusader against fundamentalist Christianity in the AF after a few scandals and issues - and cases where USAFA cadets or staff DID cross the line - in the past. His rhetoric is hyperbolic, but stems from a time when there was a perception of "exceptionalism and supremacy" at USAFA. He's also outspoken about antisemitism that he and his son (or sons?) went through while they were there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_L._Weinstein

He's pretty much loathed by all USAFA grads I know regardless of how religious they are.

 

[Pags]

Finally, it was a Bible verse on whiteboard and not cadets being thrown to the lions, tortured on the rack or burned at the stake. Suck it up and get over it.

Less bitchin, more mission; or how I learned to keep my eyes in the boat.

 

[LFCFan]

Two observations about the attached photo; 1 - I am not sure it was a cadet's 'personal' whiteboard, it appears to be next to the duty section posting and at the very least could be implied to be official, 2- What if anything was in the erased part?

Finally, it was a Bible verse on whiteboard and not cadets being thrown to the lions, tortured on the rack or burned at the stake. Suck it up and get over it.

Having been in the dorms at USAFA when my brother was there, they all have their jobs posted next to their doors (Cadet squadron CO, etc) so that was probably his personal whiteboard.

 

[Flash]

Having been in the dorms at USAFA when my brother was there, they all have their jobs posted next to their doors (Cadet squadron CO, etc) so that was probably his personal whiteboard.

Good info, thanks.

 

[Spekkio]

Weinstein, a USAFA grad, has been a crusader against fundamentalist Christianity in the AF after a few scandals and issues - and cases where USAFA cadets or staff DID cross the line - in the past. His rhetoric is hyperbolic, but stems from a time when there was a perception of "exceptionalism and supremacy" at USAFA. He's also outspoken about antisemitism that he and his son (or sons?) went through while they were there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_L._Weinstein

He's pretty much loathed by all USAFA grads I know regardless of how religious they are.

All the more reason he doesn't belong in his current position. His judgement is clouded by a time that has since passed. There's nothing wrong with pointing out an error in judgement or good order and discpline when one occurs, but there is something wrong with thinking that a subset of the group of people who you are supposed to be representing as a religious freedom advocate are a bunch of bigots and tyrants. The school had the student erase the quote and probably told him to keep it in his dorm room, but that wasn't good enough -- the student needs to be punished and he needs to publicly lambaste the USAFA. It might be hyperbole, but it's indicative of a man in a position of influence who is making decisions with his emotions and not with his mind, and is actually harming religious freedom.

 

[Flash]

All the more reason he doesn't belong in his current position.

Eh? The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is a private organization, whether he 'deserves' to be a part of it really isn't up to anyone but him and the organization.

 

[Recovering LSO]

The school had the student erase the quote and probably told him to keep it in his dorm room, but that wasn't good enough -- the student needs to be punished and he needs to publicly lambaste the USAFA.

I'm with you.

is making decisions with his emotions and not with his mind, and is actually harming religious freedom.

Still with you.

All the more reason he doesn't belong in his current position.

You lost me.