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Should I take Calculus?

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
You should do the easiest thing to get the highest grades for the least effort. :)

At Penn State they have a business calculus course sequence, that my daughter took for her cybersecurity degree. Much less time drilling into the theoretical details of limits and proving that calculus actually is a logically consistent system (just push the "I Believe" button on that) and much more time figuring out what the stuff can do for you. This is how it should be, I think.
Having slogged through the full Calculus sequence, Differential Equations, Undergrade Statistics, Graduate Statistics, and Graduate-level matrix calculus, I will say that I now see the benefit of the theory work because it has helped me see the applications of the different techniques across multiple disciplines. That said, I do think math should be more applied for the majority of majors, including engineering. Some schools actually teach it this way with engineering or economics professors actually teaching the courses instead of math professors. Going through grad school, I realized that the problem with most math classes is the professors themselves. They are usually very mathematically intelligent and can "just do it" whereas most students are either not yet at that level or their brains are more verbally/linguistically-oriented. Being one of the latter (Strange for an engineer), I had to work with my professors to build logical heuristics and process diagrams so that I could step through each problem and their permutations. They often struggled to explain it to me when they just "saw it" and could intuit most of the math in their heads while I would often get tripped up every time they did not explicitly state and show what they were doing even it was just simplification of the equation. It was difficult but we made it work.
 

Random8145

Registered User
Calculus is very integral to a lot of technical subjects, and the Navy is made up of lots of machines and technology, so might want to take it. Otherwise, you could limit yourself career-wise. Having taken it will also help you to differentiate yourself from other officers and help with integration into more technical fields. But I went off on a tangent there...:)

One key thing needed to not struggle with calculus is solid mastery of ALGEBRA, trigonometry, and geometry, but in particular the algebra. A lot of what trips students up with calculus isn't the calculus itself per se but the algebra needed to solve the problems. If your algebra is so-so, get one of those Schaum's guides for college algebra and work through that. Algebra, trigonometry, and geometry are to calculus what language arts are to writing (and arithmetic is like the abc's). You won't be able to write essays, prose, creative writing, etc...if you can't properly construct sentences and paragraphs. If you passed algebra/trig/geometry but with so-so grades, get that stuff down to second nature or you WILL struggle with calculus.
Having slogged through the full Calculus sequence, Differential Equations, Undergrade Statistics, Graduate Statistics, and Graduate-level matrix calculus, I will say that I now see the benefit of the theory work because it has helped me see the applications of the different techniques across multiple disciplines. That said, I do think math should be more applied for the majority of majors, including engineering. Some schools actually teach it this way with engineering or economics professors actually teaching the courses instead of math professors. Going through grad school, I realized that the problem with most math classes is the professors themselves. They are usually very mathematically intelligent and can "just do it" whereas most students are either not yet at that level or their brains are more verbally/linguistically-oriented. Being one of the latter (Strange for an engineer), I had to work with my professors to build logical heuristics and process diagrams so that I could step through each problem and their permutations. They often struggled to explain it to me when they just "saw it" and could intuit most of the math in their heads while I would often get tripped up every time they did not explicitly state and show what they were doing even it was just simplification of the equation. It was difficult but we made it work.
I am wanting to make a joke about the stereotype of engineers not being good at spelling:)

Yes, knowledge of the subject vs ability to teach are two ENTIRELY different things, and unfortunately, a lot of professors don't realize this. Another problem is that the teaching can be a side issue for the professor, as research is their main job, unless it's one of the rarer schools where teaching is the main focus and the research secondary.

Proper instruction of calculus, unless the person is very bright, I believe actually has to be more applied at first simply because most people will not be able to understand the proofs for the different parts of calculus, and that is what separates Real Analysis and Complex Analysis from regular calculus (i.e. regular analysis). Because in analysis, you go back to the very beginning of calculus and now learn and work through all of the proofs.
 
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number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Calculus is very integral to a lot of technical subjects
Bolded because I see what you did there :cool:

The worst grade I got in college was a C for intermediate calculus. It was taught by an adjunct professor with a PhD who was a very nice person but a horrible, horrible teacher.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Yes, knowledge of the subject vs ability to teach are two ENTIRELY different things, and unfortunately, a lot of professors don't realize this.
I think they realize it, but instructing is its own skill. Deep knowledge and an ability to disseminate it are two different things.

You can google on "best calculus on youtube" and get tons and tons of great lectures. Complaining about your instructor is no longer an excuse to learning the material. If you are motivated, you can essentially teach yourself at much lower cost (free).

I genuinely believe that the AI coming out now will really help with learning. The AI will learn your learning technique and customize instruction for you. Not yet, but soon.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Problem with that was, it wasn’t “math professors” teaching it. It was MBA students teaching the class. For a lot of people it was their first time taking calculus. So the idea behind having an MBA non mathematics professor/MA student teaching it was awful.

To be fair, that's not any different than taking Calc 1 at a large university. Most of the instruction is going to be by a grad or Phd student and it's far more about getting the widgets through the system, or culling the herd who thinks they're on the way to an engineering program.

Complaining about your instructor is no longer an excuse to learning the material. If you are motivated, you can essentially teach yourself at much lower cost (free).

Bullshit. If you're at a college, you're paying money and it's completely acceptable to expect decent instruction in exchange for your dollars. That might not be a realistic expectation, unfortunately. As a student, you're paying for a service and a certificate, so complaining if you're not getting that service is totally understandable.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Bullshit. If you're at a college, you're paying money and it's completely acceptable to expect decent instruction in exchange for your dollars. That might not be a realistic expectation, unfortunately. As a student, you're paying for a service and a certificate, so complaining if you're not getting that service is totally understandable.
Sure, that's fine. Complain about the instruction. You paid for it.

But then get off of your lazy a$$ and use the infinite supply of free learning aids and fill in where the instructor failed so you still get a decent grade, rather than whining about how you got a C because the instructor sucked.

The ability to teach yourself something, the knowledge of what it takes to learn something, is the most important skill you learn from college.
 

HSMPBR

Not a misfit toy
pilot
To be fair, that's not any different than taking Calc 1 at a large university. Most of the instruction is going to be by a grad or Phd student and it's far more about getting the widgets through the system, or culling the herd who thinks they're on the way to an engineering program.
Often that means trying to learn how to learn calculus in Chinese too
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
There's a calculus requirement for the Navy? Maybe things changed since I commissioned, because I never took calculus.

Certain OCS programs have a calculus requirement, in particular supply corps, CW, and IP.

Nuke / NUPOC requires calc and physics.
 

Anthony2000

PRO-REC Y SNA
To be fair, that's not any different than taking Calc 1 at a large university. Most of the instruction is going to be by a grad or Phd student and it's far more about getting the widgets through the system, or culling the herd who thinks they're on the way to an engineering program.



Bullshit. If you're at a college, you're paying money and it's completely acceptable to expect decent instruction in exchange for your dollars. That might not be a realistic expectation, unfortunately. As a student, you're paying for a service and a certificate, so complaining if you're not getting that service is totally understandable.

If I wanted to teach the subject to myself then I would’ve not showed up to class. I go to class to receive instruction. Just like flight school you go to class to receive instruction.

It was a business MBA student teaching my class. Business MBA is not a Math grad student, that would make sense…
As I moved into higher classes I had actual professors in the dept teaching it, but calc 1 is not easy to understand when you have someone who isn’t truly interested in the field teaching it yet alone someone who fully grasp the idea behind mathematics
 

Random8145

Registered User
Rochester Institute of Technology here in upstate NY has very good undergraduate engineering programs and it is a teaching focused university, so the primary focus of the professors is teaching, so Calc 1 is always taught by a professor.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
“Math is hard work and it occupies your mind—and it doesn't hurt to learn all you can of it, no matter what rank you are; everything of any importance is founded on mathematics.” - Starship Troopers, Robert Heinlein (the novel, not the stupid movie)
 
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