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USN Should I go Naval Aircrewman or a Submariner?
- Thread starter Alejandro Booher
- Start date
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- aviation military navy submarines
FWIW, the USNA class of 2017 had an acceptance rate of just under 7% (a class size of 1,206 from 17,654 applicants source). The Pilot/NFO board that met in February accepted 48% of its applicants (if the gouge that somebody posted in that thread is accurate). I haven't been able to find the acceptance rate from the April board, but I would imagine it was similar.
I think there is a reporting bias in the stats posted on this site towards reporting high scores, which would make OCS seem more competitive than USNA/ROTC. Also, applicants here probably score better on the ASTB than the applicant field as a whole because of all the resources available on AW.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
It is actually pretty even via all 3 sources, I used to have the near exact numbers from 2006- 2012, but OCS is a source that will go up or down, but the up's and down's are very minimal, I don't know exactly how USNA/NROTC figures things out but we used to text many NROTC guys at my NRD, and there were many who were not picked up that had better scores than some of mine who were picked up, and there were NROTC who had worse scores who were picked up than mine who were not picked up.
Anyone can get whammied, but if you are OCS and get whammied you can go home.
The thing with OCS is if you get a "N" you can re-take the ASTB and try again, and in some cases several times, I had one guy that took the ASTB 3 times over 2 years and finally was accepted, the odds of not getting picked for pilot from USNA and NROTC and then getting to be a pilot is not good.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
I have seen OCS SNA acceptance rate as high as 75% and as low as 25% and that was selecting for the same FY, 50% is a good average in most cases.
The scores of who used to be accepted was pretty standard until they added getting PQ before board, up until that point in generally it was nearly 100% Pro Y if PFAR was 8 or 9, about 50% if PFAR 7, and if 5 or 6 then try again.
Interesting. Were those numbers, both the percentages and the scores, the same for SNFO as well?
The USNA's methods of determining how many "applicants" they have is questionable and it's been argued that USNA uses that methodology to make themselves seem more selective.
Do we know what the NROTC award rate is?
How about how many people from USNA and NROTC who ask for pilot get it?
To bring this discussion back from this tangent I'm willing to bet that USNA, NROTC, and OCS both offer far higher % of getting people to flight school than does enlisting and then trying to commission.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
The percentage rate is what I didn't look at.
I would agree in nearly all cases, the exception is a person who isn't ready for college and needs to mature, but those cases are few.
Either (1) not physically qualified or (2) not motivated enough to get their act together to get a pilot slot.
USNA has it's fair share of dirtbags and all the "I got screwed out of XYZ billet" holds zero water in my book, aside from the highly competitive process to get a NSW Officer slot.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
several were SWO-N with engineering degrees who said they were nuke drafted, but how accurate that actually is I don't know.
You probably want to work on this... Studying is like 95% of Naval Aviation. You will have to study your ass off in flight school, and then the FRS, and then the fleet to get your quals, potentially a weapons school, then when you go back to the fleet for your DH tour, JPME, a masters...
Flying your aircraft and learning to employ it includes a lot of bland studying and just memorization. Learning how to effectively study now will pay dividends in the future.
Sorry I'm trying to understand this but don't think I am. Is PQ physically qualified? How would that change acceptance rates?
Also, really really wish those selection rates pop up for this board!
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
that is indeed what PQ is.
now that people must have PQ letter several that would go to board now do not, so the pool of people is smaller meaning rates would be a bit higher and that means those with lower scores who before would not get picked up are now getting picked up.
Pags, I think NavyOffRec might be right on this one. When someone applies for OCS for SNA, if they don't get it, they can walk. That's not the case with ROTC/USNA. For that reason alone I would have to suspect that the higher percentage of people that want to be pilots and become pilots belongs to OCS. Because in my case, had they not given me SNA I would have walked.
As far as your second point about guys with low GPAs that would get laughed out of an ORs office getting pilot slots through USNA/ROTC.....Well, I was one of those guys that got laughed out of an ORs office with an online business degree as a prior enlisted guy. I talked him into submitting my package once he was done laughing and got a call from him a couple weeks later letting me know I was pro-rec SNA.
I guess the choice between OCS, USNA, and NROTC comes down to how much you'd be willing to consider career paths other than Aviation and how much of college you want to pay for on your own. If a Sailor gets their degree in their own time and applies to OCS with a BS already in hand then the OCS flight guarantee is a good deal. I'd bet that in your case that your prior-e experience may have counted for a lot more than your GPA did. Not sure if a guy without any enlisted experience and similar grades/degree would have as much luck as you did. But if someone needs a way to pay for school or wants Uncle to pick up the tuition check so the individual doesn't have to the USNA and NROTC is a good path. To me the ability to leave college debt free is worth the risk of not getting selected for aviation. In that case just you at least have a job for a few years and when you get out in 4 you don't have college debt to worry about.
Personally I wanted I chose NROTC because:
-lower shenanigans. My USN commitment was a few hours a week and I had to wear a uniform two days a week. This seemed pretty doable even to a former skate punk kid.
-free school. In hindsight the fact that I never had any loans to pay back was HUGE.
-guaranteed job. I was considering NROTC in the middle of the 90s recession. I figured having a job guaranteed for at least four years was a nice thing.
-solid shot at flight school. In the fours years I was in NROTC I never saw anyone who was PQ not get flight school.
-I was happy to consider other career paths. NROTC gave me four years to research, explore, and get hands on experience with the communities prior to making a choice. I STRONGLY considered EOD and SWO(EDO) options. In fact there have been many times that I've kicked myself over not going SWO(EDO).
-BONUS: because I was NROTC I was afforded the opportunity to go to NPS immediately following graduation and get my MS. Although it hosed my USN career timing it's paid dividends in the real world job hunt.
Obviously the choice comes down to what the individual wants/needs but I think this had been a good discussion that had illustrated the pros/cons of the various commissioning sources.
Yeah, if you don't want to study, consider a different career path. Believe it or not, aviation is a lot more than just stick and rudder skills.
Between the 3 sources, you have to choose what you are looking for.
OCS may offer some guarantee, but then again OCS classes can ebb and flow with the needs of the Navy. Sure, SNA spots are likely to increase over the coming years, but that isnt' always the case. But you pay for your college.
ROTC is kinda the best of both worlds, free college for those on scholarship, more options.
USNA is a great place to be from, but not a great college exp. I enjoyed it and wont say I wouldn't do it again, but I might look at ROTC a little harder if I had a do over. But at the time I went to USNA, you could guarantee yourself an aviation spot by being PQ and being high enough in the class to select it. Times have changed but if you can't get a SNA/SNFO spot out of USNA, you aren't going to be much of a contender anyway IMO.
I'd never rec someone enlist if they know they want to get a commission and fly. Can it happen? Sure. Do lots of people get derailed? Absolutely. Unsupportive command, bad timing, start a family, screw it up as an E? That happens too. Probably the only commmunity I'd rec someone to enlist if they want to be a "doer" their whole career is NSW.
Between the 3 sources, you have to choose what you are looking for.
OCS may offer some guarantee, but then again OCS classes can ebb and flow with the needs of the Navy. Sure, SNA spots are likely to increase over the coming years, but that isnt' always the case. But you pay for your college.
ROTC is kinda the best of both worlds, free college for those on scholarship, more options.
USNA is a great place to be from, but not a great college exp. I enjoyed it and wont say I wouldn't do it again, but I might look at ROTC a little harder if I had a do over. But at the time I went to USNA, you could guarantee yourself an aviation spot by being PQ and being high enough in the class to select it. Times have changed but if you can't get a SNA/SNFO spot out of USNA, you aren't going to be much of a contender anyway IMO.
I'd never rec someone enlist if they know they want to get a commission and fly. Can it happen? Sure. Do lots of people get derailed? Absolutely. Unsupportive command, bad timing, start a family, screw it up as an E? That happens too. Probably the only commmunity I'd rec someone to enlist if they want to be a "doer" their whole career is NSW.
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