Shooting debrief discussion

[exNavyOffRec]

Well, I’ve seen it with my own eyes, the retired Police Chief suggested it as an option, and this defense attorney has this to say (state of Washington)

First Offense DUI – What You Need To Know After The Arrest Has Happened

Learn what to do as a first-time DUI offender from a DUI attorney who has years of experience to offer. Great representation can make all the difference.

www.russellandhill.com

In Pennsylvania


Some more “crap” from Cedric Alexander, former Police Chief of Dekalb County, which has over 1000 employees so it’s not Mayberry RFD.

Atlanta Man's Killing Sparks Outrage Over Police Using Deadly Force

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to Cedric Alexander, former police chief of Georgia's DeKalb County, about an incident over the weekend in Atlanta, where a black man was shot and killed by police.

www.npr.org

My good friend is a trooper in WA, we have had many talks about the DUI issues in WA, in fact the courts are so overloaded if you fight it the whole process can take years, it isn't uncommon for a person fighting to go to court 2 years after it has happened. This attorney is looking for business (big surprise right?) in King and to an extent Snohomish county the first thing that will happen in the prosecutor will offer a deal of negligent or reckless driving, in many cases you will get a deal on your second DUI as well so King County is the place to get a DUI.

If a person is respectful to the officer the best they will do is not handcuff you while you get processed with the officer, they do not let people go home as you are a liability to the jurisdiction that caught you.

 

[Brett327]

Well, I’ve seen it with my own eyes, the retired Police Chief suggested it as an option, and this defense attorney has this to say (state of Washington)

First Offense DUI – What You Need To Know After The Arrest Has Happened

Learn what to do as a first-time DUI offender from a DUI attorney who has years of experience to offer. Great representation can make all the difference.

www.russellandhill.com

In Pennsylvania


Some more “crap” from Cedric Alexander, former Police Chief of Dekalb County, which has over 1000 employees so it’s not Mayberry RFD.

Atlanta Man's Killing Sparks Outrage Over Police Using Deadly Force

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to Cedric Alexander, former police chief of Georgia's DeKalb County, about an incident over the weekend in Atlanta, where a black man was shot and killed by police.

www.npr.org

Since none of this applies to APD jurisdiction, it’s not particularly relevant. I’m all for adjusting enforcement for DUI so that common sense prevails, but you can’t retroactively apply this standard to the case we’re discussing. We can’t expect LEOs to act in accordance with the guidance you wish had been in place at the time.

 

[taxi1]

Since none of this applies to APD jurisdiction, it’s not particularly relevant.

Dekalb County

Since none of this applies to APD jurisdiction, it’s not particularly relevant. I’m all for adjusting enforcement for DUI so that common sense prevails, but you can’t retroactively apply this standard to the case we’re discussing. We can’t expect LEOs to act in accordance with the guidance you wish had been in place at the time.

I'm pretty sure the gentleman, Cedric Alexander, is well aware of the guidance active in Atlanta. Dekalb County covers a big part of the metro Atlanta area, and you can bet the police forces interact. Do they train together? I don't know. Did the rules change drastically between 2017 and last week? I doubt it.

All things lead to Pensacola, of course...

Pensacola hires national expert - and Pensacola native - to train PPD

Cedric Alexander has 40 years of law enforcement experience, including as deputy, detective and police chief, as well as serving on President Obama's Task Force on 21st Century Policing.

www.pnj.com

A grand jury report following the fatal police shooting of Tymar Crawford called for better training of Pensacola police officers, and the city is turning to a nationally respected expert on law enforcement who happens to call Pensacola home.

Cedric Alexander will be consulting with the Pensacola Police Department and providing training to police officers in 2020, Pensacola Mayor Grover Robinson announced this week.

Alexander has nearly 40 years of law enforcement experience at the local and federal levels, and he literally helped write the book on modern community policing.

Alexander was born and raised in Pensacola and began his law enforcement career in 1977 as a Leon County Sheriff's deputy. He later served as a police officer and detective in Orlando and Miami, as well as deputy chief and chief of police of the Rochester Police Department in New York, and as federal security director with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security overseeing the Dallas Fort Worth International Airport.

Alexander moved back to Pensacola after retiring as deputy mayor for the city of Rochester and now consults with police departments across the country.

...His work as director of Public Safety in DeKalb County, Georgia, which contains a large part of the metro Atlanta area, led to his appointment on former President Barack Obama's Task Force on 21st Century Policing in 2014.

 

[Brett327]

Dekalb County

But that’s just where this guy worked. It‘s his recommendation, not department policy.

 

[Jim123]

I think it's on the table for the greater discussion about reforms. Of course it doesn't apply to this defined thread about what they could have done differently with Rayshard Brooks, with current policy and practice.

 

[Brett327]

I think it's on the table for the greater discussion about reforms. Of course it doesn't apply to this defined thread about what they could have done differently with Rayshard Brooks, with current policy and practice.

Yes, I understand, but Taxi seems to want it to apply retroactively, which seems odd to me.

 

[taxi1]

You guys appear to be saying Mr. Alexander is wrong, that current APD policy and practice prohibited the police from making a judgement call on Mr. Brooks' situation.

I trust his opinion, based on his past experience and current ongoing work.

 

[wink]

It's stupid to consider simply putting a drunk in an Uber or taxi for a ride home. The driver has no responsibility to take them to the destination ordered by the police. The drunk can get out go back to his car and drive it or simply walk into traffic and be killed. It's a liability nightmare whether policy or not it's ridiculous in today's environment, Mothers Against Drunk Driving and all. There is no mood to go easy on drunk drivers. Even if allowed, I would never put a guy in a cab home.

 

[Jim123]

You guys appear to be saying Mr. Alexander is wrong, that current APD policy and practice prohibited the police from making a judgement call on Mr. Brooks' situation.

I don't think he's wrong. I just interpreted what he said (about writing the ticket and discretionarily sending the guy straight home) to mean that he was suggesting it should be an option in more jurisdictions.

Like wink and a few others have said, it does open up a can of worms, but it's a worthwhile discussion.

I trust his opinion, based on his past experience and current ongoing work.

I agree. He's recognized all around the country for his expertise.

I think that arresting people for sleeping in passengers seats of their cars, and slapping them with a DUI conviction for life, is counterproductive and stupid. Anti-drunk driving groups ought to be leading the charge against this one, not supporting it. (The blame gets spread a few ways on this one, basically anybody who is celebrating statistics- lobby groups, legislators, law enforcement.)

 

[taxi1]

It's stupid to consider simply putting a drunk in an Uber or taxi for a ride home. The driver has no responsibility to take them to the destination ordered by the police. The drunk can get out go back to his car and drive it or simply walk into traffic and be killed.

OK, so call his wife or mom, or give him a ride home. Impound the car. Charge him still.

From a public safety perspective, once he was separated from the car he was no different from the thousands of drunks tromping around Mardis Gras or any college town post-football game on foot and Uber-ing to and fro, except that he'd already proven himself otherwise cooperative, compliant, and respectful of law enforcement. Would that be the case with all drunks.

I think that arresting people for sleeping in passengers seats of their cars, and slapping them with a DUI conviction for life, is counterproductive and stupid.

Yup. The only drunk driving they actually observed him doing was when they directed him to drive his car out of the drive-thu lane and into a parking spot.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

OK, so call his wife or mom, or give him a ride home. Impound the car. Charge him still.

From a public safety perspective, once he was separated from the car he was no different from the thousands of drunks tromping around Mardis Gras or any college town post-football game on foot and Uber-ing to and fro, except that he'd already proven himself otherwise cooperative, compliant, and respectful of law enforcement. Would that be the case with all drunks.

Yup. The only drunk driving they actually observed him doing was when they directed him to drive his car out of the drive-thu lane and into a parking spot.

There is a difference between a guy sleeping in a car at a bar than there is a guy sleeping in a car in a drive thru, the one in the drive thru had been driving and when came to whether by police or another waking him up would have continued to drive, his previous actions indicate he is a liability for anyone that crosses his path. The people walking around drunk at Mardis Gras do not have physical control of a car and have not shown intent to drive at that point.

I do believe many crimes should just be give them a ticket and have them appear in court, if they don't show then go arrest them, things like shoplifting, vandalism, trespassing (when not part of DV), and other non-violent crimes.

You know what would drastically minimize drunk driving is each vehicle having a factory installed interlock.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

OK, so call his wife or mom, or give him a ride home. Impound the car. Charge him still.

From a public safety perspective, once he was separated from the car he was no different from the thousands of drunks tromping around Mardis Gras or any college town post-football game on foot and Uber-ing to and fro, except that he'd already proven himself otherwise cooperative, compliant, and respectful of law enforcement. Would that be the case with all drunks.

Yup. The only drunk driving they actually observed him doing was when they directed him to drive his car out of the drive-thu lane and into a parking spot.

Yeah whatever you do, don’t arrest him because he may flip out and attack the police. What a ridiculous position. The guy broke the law. He was getting arrested and fought the police. He lost. The message should be don’t break the law and if you do, don’t resist arrest. Instead we have apologists making excuses.

 

[Hair Warrior]

It's stupid to consider simply putting a drunk in an Uber or taxi for a ride home. The driver has no responsibility to take them to the destination ordered by the police. The drunk can get out go back to his car and drive it or simply walk into traffic and be killed. It's a liability nightmare whether policy or not it's ridiculous in today's environment, Mothers Against Drunk Driving and all. There is no mood to go easy on drunk drivers. Even if allowed, I would never put a guy in a cab home.

Most taxis, ubers, and lyfts even have a policy of ejecting you from the ride (on the spot) if you vomit, are argumentative, or belligerent.

 

[Wareal]

Agreed. My former patrol partner is female. We were hired together in 2004 as well as the same age [40] when we were sworn in. She had this knack for de-escalating situations...especially DVs. Calm, cool, collected...I admired her for that since I tended to be rather impatient regarding DVs...and other situations. She and I had a pretty good deal going while on patrol...she would do the talking [de-escalating] and do most of the report writing while I provided backup and drove the police vehicle. She hated driving the police vehicle since she was afraid she was going to get in an accident. Anyway, she’s a Captain now with the Cincinnati Police...and I wouldn’t be surprised if she became Cincinnati’s first female Chief...she’s pretty freaking sharp.

My former patrol partner on the left and myself on the right...my last day with the Cincinnati Police in 2006...

View attachment 26412

Inquiring minds want to know. Did you meet her at Dunkin Donuts or Hooters? Did she like Dunkin Donuts or Hooters?

 

[mad dog]

Inquiring minds want to know. Did you meet her at Dunkin Donuts or Hooters? Did she like Dunkin Donuts or Hooters?

I did not meet her at Dunkin’ Donuts or Hooters...I met her during day one of the Cincinnati Police Academy in 2004. I have no idea if she likes Dunkin’ Donuts or Hooters...I didn’t do Dunkin’ Donuts and I seldom went to Hooters back in 2004.