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NEWS Seahawks Sink Houthi Boats
- Thread starter IKE
- Start date
An entire ship getting a CAR is a ridiculous notion. Yes, I realize it has been done before. Everyone on this forum (with boat time) knows a significant number of personnel were doing jack and shit during that engagement, regardless if they were at GQ (Yes, Iāve seen it). Meanwhile your service brethren are getting PH for getting struck by IDF but donāt rate a CAR or CIB/CAB because they simply didnāt pick up a rifle and fire a round in an engagement during (Insert OIR, OEF, OIF XX.X).
A key criterion in the award is satisfactory performance and active participation (Appendix 2C.1) Navy and Marine Corps Award Manual
Not a single one of you guys here can say with a straight face all ships company were active participants. However, I realize this is a cultural gap with ships and lack of recognition for a specific event. Throw in a little awards inflation, poor SWO morale, and everyone gets a trophy mentality - Not surprised. Willing to hear counter-arguments, but no one is going to change my mind on this so we can agree to disagree. I hope the HSM bubbas got AMs out of it.
Iāve only seen it from the CVN standpoint but to successfully engage a target, there are a ton of moving parts, each with a sailor (or whole shop) that have to work right the first time. Are the guys in aft steering doing anything? No, but for the most part nearly every person on the boat is either pushing the buttons or supporting those that are in some way.
Most importantly, though I think the big difference is that if the boat donkeys donāt perform well, and a vamp gets through and hits the boat EVERYONE is going to have a bad time.
Most importantly, though I think the big difference is that if the boat donkeys donāt perform well, and a vamp gets through and hits the boat EVERYONE is going to have a bad time.
Curious how you would define that on a ship. Is it just the people engaged in specific functions (driving the ship, fire control, etc.) or is it anyone at their workstation at the time? Once you define it how would you validate it? Or do you just say this is too hard no one gets anything?
This is the thing. After ODS no fewer than 46 USN ships (entire crew) were awarded the CAR by the SecNav as were some members of HM-14 and a Det of VC-6. In the end, if the decoration is awarded by competent authority then slap it onā¦there will always be some other hero who thinks you donāt deserve it.
Well please make sure you let them know of your disapproval. I mean, the entire DoN does hang their self-esteem on whether some devil dogs consider them sufficiently badass.
Jesus, some of yāall talk like nobody rates anything unless you were bayonet-charging machine gun nests on Iwo Jima. The ship took hostile fire, the Secretary decided the crew rated the ribbon, and nobody thinks a CAR is a Navy Cross or whatever. Calm down.
Jesus, some of yāall talk like nobody rates anything unless you were bayonet-charging machine gun nests on Iwo Jima. The ship took hostile fire, the Secretary decided the crew rated the ribbon, and nobody thinks a CAR is a Navy Cross or whatever. Calm down.
FFS. BZ to the ship and the helicopter crews for upholding the Navyās mission of freedom of navigation. Iām amazed how many of you guys are fixated on ribbons. Put me in the āwho caresā category.
Awards boards with everyone moaning about āawards inflationā and how āsailor X was just doing his jobā and doesnāt rate a NAM are something Iām glad to have in the rear view mirror. Congrats on your fucking salad bar. My friends, memories, and even my unit/morale patches mean way more to me than award citations.
Now this is interestingā¦ Hamas terrorist leader taken out, but the actor isnāt clearly stated in the article. Why wouldnāt someone take credit?
apple.news
Awards boards with everyone moaning about āawards inflationā and how āsailor X was just doing his jobā and doesnāt rate a NAM are something Iām glad to have in the rear view mirror. Congrats on your fucking salad bar. My friends, memories, and even my unit/morale patches mean way more to me than award citations.
Now this is interestingā¦ Hamas terrorist leader taken out, but the actor isnāt clearly stated in the article. Why wouldnāt someone take credit?
Killing of senior Hamas leader in Beirut is likely to be seen as warning to Iran ā NBC News
The targeting of Saleh al-Arouri serves as a warning to Iran, which has armed and financed Hamas, and other Hamas leaders, experts said.
You might consider recognition in another way - PUC/NUC + NC/NAMs with Combat Vs for key personnel, or whatever battlestreamers are relevant to ships. The carte blanc āCARs for everyone including the augment CS taxes stealing oxygenā¦ā cheapens the hell out of a CAR (Iām not saying CS rates donāt matter, for all of you about to tip in).
Whoās not calm? Itās a different culture, and awards actually have a lot of significance in the Marines. Itās not just a piece of cloth and metal you toss on your uniform to us. I have other gripes with the Navy/USMC awards process, but this isnāt one of them.
Jokes on all of you, Iām actually just here to get all of AWs to start defending SWOs. Moving on, unless anyone else wants to throw some heaters my way.
I recall reading somewhere on here that the DFC was a typical award for an air to air kill.
I agree on the AM, but since this was the first ever actual hellfire engagement (I think), I could see someone arguing for the DFC.
You wanna see awards inflation, come take a look at Air Force awards. My first award I wrote I recommended an AF achievement medal for a first tour O-3 about to PCS. The squadron commander came and gave me a long talk about it.
No exaggeration, the size of my ribbon rack doubled when I swapped over just because I existed and therefore qualified for a bunch of AF awards.
+1 on this - I write awards for our reservists and see it everyday. That and for AF pilots, Reserve and AD, O-5 is almost an entitlement. Its a rarity to see a rated aircrew without an Air Medal.
There is no awards inflation with the CAR, it was awarded in line with how it has been awarded since it was established. As other folks have already alluded to, bases can't sink. As much as I, like many here, like to rag on SWO's they have been doing a pretty damn good job in the Red Sea the last few weeks, even if they aren't facing a 'near peer'.
From personal experience I've known plenty of folks who have gotten CAR's, CAB's, CAM's and even CIB's from every service (yes Virginia, even Marines) that did very little compared to some of their peers who earned the exact same award. As someone already pointed out, same with the Purple Heart as well. It is what it is, life ain't fair.
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Flash, Okay. First the CAR is an individual award and outright awarding an entire unit is absurd (Awards manual states as such). It always has beenā¦ Secondly, using the āthatās how weāve always done itā excuse is intellectually lazy. We can disagree, but you gotta have better material than that brother.
To your last point, I have yet to see a Marine awarded that ribbon who wasnāt at least directly engaged in a combat scenario. We can debate impact and effectiveness. Yes, I understand there is a difference between conducting a breach through a door in urban combat or complex IED ambush vice simply returning fire against a lone shoot and run marksmen. That has always been the case, but it doesnāt make awarding the N1 personnel on a ship with a CAR any less ridiculous. Both can be true at the same time. I understand your (and others) point of view, but I simply disagree.
HSM getting DFCs for a HF strike? Those boys and gals deserve recognition, Iām just not sure itās DFC-level material. I could probably go either way on that one, but more context on the situation is needed.
10NM Hellfire huh? Were they in the flight levels?