Role of USMC F/A-18s?

[PhatFarmer35]

I was currious about the differenet roles of F/A-18s in the Marine Corps.

I know one of the primary roles of Marine Corps aviation is to provide close air support to Marines on the ground. Is CAS also the primary goal for USMC F/A-18s?

Would a Marine F/A-18 squadron onboard a Navy aircraft fly deep strike missions alongside Navy F/A-18 squadrons (like bombing Baghdad)? Or would even carrier based Marine F/A-18s be tasked with only CAS?

I have the same question about land based Marine F/A-18s. Would they ever fly deep strike missions (flying from Saudi Arabia to bomb Baghdad for example), only CAS, or a combination of both?

Also, do would Harrier's fly deep strike missions ever or almost only CAS?

Thank you for your time.

 

[LIFTER]

to recruit people to the aviation program?

 

[wannafly4life]

would somebody fricken answer the mans question, i want to know too.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

to recruit people to the aviation program?

Sounds like an answer to me :icon_king

 

[PhatFarmer35]

That first answer kind of confused me.

I just decided not to respond lol.

 

[phrogdriver]

The Marine Corps allocates what are called "surplus sorties" to the Air Component Commander Basically this means that after any Marine support missions have been taken care of, any available flight time will be given to the theater air commander to use as he sees fit. We had Harriers coming off our amphib going to do missions over Afghanistan well before Marines ever landed in country. They were under terminal control by different spec ops and so forth, but it certainly wasn't CAS. F-18s, with better legs, would be used even more so.

 

[wink]

The two seat F-18D's also have a Forward Air Control mission they call Fast FAC, to distinguish it from the FAC role on the ground or from helos. It is a rather demanding job especially when done from a fast mover. They also conduct all the missions of the single seat bugs.

phrogdriver makes a point that is critical to understand. The whole reason for USMC Air is so the Marines have dedicated air assets. All USMC assets belong to the Corps and are not "fraged" as part of the Air Tasking Order (ATO), the joint flight schedule so to speak. Only when the Marines are satisfied they have all the Air they need do they make their aircraft available for missions in support of the Joint Forces Air Component Commander. There are very bright lines seperating USMC aviation from the rest of the military. This relationship is one reason the grunts get better support from the USMC air then from anyone else. I suppose it has gotten better lately, but it is also the reason grunts get better support then the Army does from the USAF.

 

[Lonestar155]

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. The role of the USMC F-18 is to fly next to the NAVY's F-18, and take aerial shots of the NAVY's F-18 doing all the dirty work. haha just kidding

 

[stinky]

All USMC assets belong to the Corps and are not "fraged" as part of the Air Tasking Order (ATO), the joint flight schedule so to speak

All if this is true unless a squadron has been assigned to a Navy Airwing. Then they fall directly under the command of the Airwing Commander (CAG) and he is generally a Navy Captain although recently this has expanded to include the first Marine Corps Colonel. The CAG works directly for the Battle Group Commander who is always a Navy one star and a lot of times not even an aviator. The Marine Hornet Squadron may get special consideration when missions of CAS come up for the Airwing as they are likely the most proficient. However, they are considered just another tactical asset, capable of contributing to any mission off the boat to include being tasked for a specific theater’s ATO. This example is obviously only relevant when Marine F-18 Squadrons are assigned to an Navy Airwing and deployed on an aircraft carrier.

 

[wink]

To muddy the issue even more. Sometimes USMC squadrons or dets are assigned directly to an Air Component Commander. An example was USMC F-18s and EA-6Bs assigned to Operation Southern Watch during the mid to late '90s. These guys were tasked by an Air Force one star in Italy as I recall, and reported administratively to the Commander of Naval Forces Europe. This is rare though and still must pass the basic test of USMC needs first. Those guys weren't needed by the USMC anywhere else so they deployed in support of OSW. Marine Squadrons deployed as part of the CVW is still uncommon though more frequent since the Navy has screwed up their TACAIR post A-12 cancellation. Marine deployment to a CVW is a solution to a problem, not the normal course of business.

 

[stinky]

Marine Squadrons deployed as part of the CVW is still uncommon though more frequent since the Navy has screwed up their TACAIR post A-12 cancellation. Marine deployment to a CVW is a solution to a problem, not the normal course of business.

As of 1995 it has been the normal course of business for the Navy And Marine Corps. VMFA-312 (among others) has consistently deployed in a Navy Airwing for the past 9 years and will foreseeably continue to do so as long as the Naval Aviation remains short on strike aircraft. The latest Tactical Air Integration conference (TAI) had the Navy giving up three Hornet squadrons, the The Naval Reserves giving up one Hornet Squadron and the Marine Corps Reserves giving up one squadron as well. This would then open the door to the Navy and Marine Corps integrating their Tacair assets - Marines going to the boat and Navy squadrons performing expeditionary warfare. This was one of the reasons for introducing a Marine Corps CAG into the mix (a first for Naval Aviation).

However, the latest round of TAI had the Marine Corps refusing to give up their Reserve Hornet Squadron as well as backing out of any more Tacair integration than is already in place.

Marine's always seem to hold their ground very well over issues such as this TAI but none the less, they currently are and will continue to be a tremendous asset to Naval Aviation and the Airwings in which they deploy.

 

[Squid]

i'll go ahead and throw ina witty, yet useless retort (although you gents have clearly answeres the question)

when asked what the marine -18's role is, I would simply put it: to fly around on their little wingies and do loops and rolls and stuff trying to get the bad guy.

 

[PhatFarmer35]

Thank you for all the replies.

Lets take a pretend war for example. Say we were at war with North Korea, but there was currently no ground war going on.

USMC F/A-18s onboard Navy aircraft carriers would have no one to provide CAS for so they would take on the same role as Navy F/A-18s, and go fly over NK bombing stratgic targets and things like that right?

And say there was an amphibous invasion led by US Marines, providing CAS for those Marines would be the primary role of USMC F/A-18s, even the ones on Navy aircraft carriers?

Would this also be true with Harriers on amphibous assault ships?

Would the same be true with land based USMC F/A-18s in say South Korea? Meaning before a ground war, would USMC F/A-18s be bombing stratgic targets in NK, and after an invasion be providing CAS?


Sorry for the long questions, but thank you again for replying.

 

[Odom]

The two seat F-18D's also have a Forward Air Control mission they call Fast FAC, to distinguish it from the FAC role on the ground or from helos.
The whole reason for USMC Air is so the Marines have dedicated air assets. All USMC assets belong to the Corps and are not "fraged" as part of the Air Tasking Order (ATO), the joint flight schedule so to speak. Only when the Marines are satisfied they have all the Air they need do they make their aircraft available for missions in support of the Joint Forces Air Component Commander.

Fast FAC is an old term and is not used in CAS. It was for Air Interdiction missions conducted in designated Kill Boxes. The new term is SCAR (Strike Coordination and Recon). For CAS missions the role is FAC(A), whether it be conducted from fixed wing, helo, or anything else. The ATO is exactly how USMC air is fragged for pre-planned/on call CAS. Marine air does not service the GCE and then make themselves available to the JFACC. The JFACC owns all air and apportions it according to the targeting nomination board, disseminated via the ITO (integrated tasking order), and then broken down into the ATO, irrespective of service. Marines normally service the GCE, but that is not the rule. If you really want to get to the meat of the matter, MWCP 3-23 Offensive Air Support is available open source.

 

[jarhead]

...
Also, do would Harrier's fly deep strike missions ever or almost only CAS?

the weapons on a section of Harriers consists of the lead having two externals, a LITENING pod, one (1) GBU-16, & a couple of heaters and -2 having 2 externals, 2 GBU-16s, & a couple of heaters ... i suppose those (3) LBGs would be helpful in a CAS situation, but their 15 minutes or less on station time sorta limits them significantly, not to mention the huge IR signature with their single engine and poor performance above 20k

the Hornet will check in with the FAC with the lead having 2 externals, a (sh!!ty) FLIR (soon to be rectified with the AT-FLIR for A+ & C's & LITENING AT for the D's), 4 GBU-16s or GBU-12s or 2 GBU-31s or 4-6 CBU-100's or 4-6 MK-82s or 2-3 Mk-83s (or mix & match any of these), 1 Aim-120, 2 Heaters and his -2 having the same loadout (sometimes minus a FLIR with an LST in it's place), with 20-30 minutes of on-station time, and the ability to fly at 25k with decent performance.

i'm bias though, a Harrier pilot will probably tell you how awesome his jet is ...

S/F