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Road to 350: What Does the US Navy Do Anyway?

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The flip-side being “Just because you’ve met good people caught up in this” doesn’t negate the necessity of executing something.

Again, you guys can get mad as you want at the haphazard nature of the process, what has been absent is any suggestions beyond “dont do it this way” for better way forward. My dad works for the VA after retirement for the Air Force, he is probably one of the biggest proponents of doing something/anything to that agency and as much as he can’t stand the current admin this is a win for him.

Being so flippant about how things have been done belies your ignorance, yet again. Much of what has been done was literally spurred by nothing more than tweets by random folks on the internet. It is the worst way to do things, 'cause it ain't, but that is not the way to run any organization unless it is for pure entertainment. For government it makes no sense, whatsoever.

As for the absence of alternatives, I didn't realize from the tomes you've authored in this thread we needed to put some forth. But if you want an actual alternative perhaps the downsizing of the DoD the 90's, to include BRAC and a large reduction in federal civil servants among many other things, would be a useful guide of how to do it. Departments and agencies did significant planning where they identified parts of their workforce and capabilities that could be reduced in a largely coherent manner. While things were by no means perfect it was a deliberate, coordinated process that included input from the civilian and military leadership from the affected agencies as well as Congress and actually made sense big picture-wise. Want more details? Look 'em up.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Much of what has been done was literally spurred by nothing more than tweets by random folks on the internet. It is the worst way to do things, 'cause it ain't, but that is not the way to run any organization unless it is for pure entertainment. For government it makes no sense, whatsoever.

Decimation was the most extreme punishment of the Roman army...lots were taken such that a tenth of the men were condemned. Their comrades then killed them with clubs before the survivors were then further punished with barley rations and required to bivouac outside the fortified camp.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
I don’t think this is the point you want to make.

Crassus employing the tactic (which was unbelievably rare to maintain its effect) went as a response to his Army failing and later end in a victory in the 3rd Servile war.

Again, don’t like the way things are being done or have an abject loyalty to your people, fine. But don’t pretend this hasn’t been stewing for a while. What did you or your staffs above you or upper leadership do to prepare for this moment. As my Chops was fond of saying “Your chance to influence the plan was everything left of the order, now you work to influence the outcome.” If the answer was to lament about how unfair it is and demand it not happen or deny it ever could, how did you not fail to prepare those people.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
I don’t think this is the point you want to make.

Crassus employing the tactic (which was unbelievably rare to maintain its effect) went as a response to his Army failing and later end in a victory in the 3rd Servile war.

Again, don’t like the way things are being done or have an abject loyalty to your people, fine. But don’t pretend this hasn’t been stewing for a while. What did you or your staffs above you or upper leadership do to prepare for this moment. As my Chops was fond of saying “Your chance to influence the plan was everything left of the order, now you work to influence the outcome.” If the answer was to lament about how unfair it is and demand it not happen or deny it ever could, how did you not fail to prepare those people.
OK now this is treading into bizarre.

You are conflating several different issues (Federal civilian HR practices, DOD civilians, retired military in Fed jobs, acquisition dysfunction, dealing with a broken program through an OT lens) among others that you experienced in the Army, and are spreading it across all DOD, to boot. You also seem to be either glossing over or are unaware of the role the private sector, or rather the impact of market forces on industry.

And somehow…the actual solution for that translates to let’s shit on DOD civilians? Not being able to hire a new wrench turner working in a missile depot or welder in a shipyard to replace a DRP loss translates to the big bad DOD civilian boogeyman how now?

Reform has been stewing for a while. Yup, ack.

Not seeing how you’re connecting the dots between them other than some Army civilians (especially former military) pissed you off. Sorry, but now you’re coming across as just someone with a grudge and won’t be happy until they see the world burn just because.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
OK now this is treading into bizarre.

You are conflating several different issues (Federal civilian HR practices, DOD civilians, retired military in Fed jobs, acquisition dysfunction, dealing with a broken program through an OT lens) among others that you experienced in the Army, and are spreading it across all DOD, to boot. You also seem to be either glossing over or are unaware of the role the private sector, or rather the impact of market forces on industry.

And somehow…the actual solution for that translates to let’s shit on DOD civilians? Not being able to hire a new wrench turner working in a missile depot or welder in a shipyard to replace a DRP loss translates to the big bad DOD civilian boogeyman how now?

Reform has been stewing for a while. Yup, ack.

Not seeing how you’re connecting the dots between them other than some Army civilians (especially former military) pissed you off. Sorry, but now you’re coming across as just someone with a grudge and won’t be happy until they see the world burn just because.
No I think you guys are focused off the threat caught in the swell, and not acknowledging what we are currently doing is unsustainable and despite years of pledges to do something somebody is now violently dislodging and attempting a lot all at once.

Nobody is saying there will not be collateral damage or fallout, but the immediate pivot by protection of sacred cows or dismissal that there isn’t dead weight etc is a big part of this problem. And no, when we’ve got soldiers sleeping outside of a civilian office to be seen the idea of firing people in that office to make the point that your primary customer is them, or examples of entrenched civilian obstructions to moving ahead yeah I’m gonna take issue with people who suddenly see no way forward now that they’ve hung up the uniform and crossed over. I’m by no means isolated in my opinion on this guessing from the whisky shared commiserating with others who found their way to the same despite different pipelines of experience and visibility.

Personally I like the buy out idea, Id just like to see it as a more discretionary usage at lower levels to incentivize certain individuals to find their way out. I’ve got soldiers in uniform I’d like the same option for so this is by no means restricted to people of DOD civilians out of uniform.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The flip-side being “Just because you’ve met good people caught up in this” doesn’t negate the necessity of executing something.

And yes while it would thrill us if that guy would just find a new job, dude refuses to leave. He is sitting in a chair next to the CG giving bad advice based off the “culmination of experience” and a TS-SCI he obviously never really used, so those chaff & flare labels of self importance mean very little.

Again, you guys can get mad as you want at the haphazard nature of the process, what has been absent is any suggestions beyond “dont do it this way” for better way forward. My dad works for the VA after retirement for the Air Force, he is probably one of the biggest proponents of doing something/anything to that agency and as much as he can’t stand the current admin this is a win for him. It is not by any means restricted to Army Aviation winning while everybody loses.
In other words... just do something... ANYTHING... even if it's worse than the status quo. Brilliant.

Lawman: "Hey guys, let's throw the baby out with the bathwater!"
DOGE: "Hold my beer."
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
No I think you guys are focused off the threat caught in the swell, and not acknowledging what we are currently doing is unsustainable and despite years of pledges to do something somebody is now violently dislodging and attempting a lot all at once.

Nobody is saying there will not be collateral damage or fallout, but the immediate pivot by protection of sacred cows or dismissal that there isn’t dead weight etc is a big part of this problem. And no, when we’ve got soldiers sleeping outside of a civilian office to be seen the idea of firing people in that office to make the point that your primary customer is them, or examples of entrenched civilian obstructions to moving ahead yeah I’m gonna take issue with people who suddenly see no way forward now that they’ve hung up the uniform and crossed over. I’m by no means isolated in my opinion on this guessing from the whisky shared commiserating with others who found their way to the same despite different pipelines of experience and visibility.

Personally I like the buy out idea, Id just like to see it as a more discretionary usage at lower levels to incentivize certain individuals to find their way out. I’ve got soldiers in uniform I’d like the same option for so this is by no means restricted to people of DOD civilians out of uniform.

Never let perfection be the enemy of good enough.

Imagine never have sat on a 3 or 4 Star staff and thinking you know how the bigger picture in the DoD works. The epiphany that occurs at the 0-5 to 0-6 level is unfortunately showing its ugly head. In essence, this looks like a classic case study of DKE. Also a fresh reminder of why having career warrant officers calling shots for the NAE is a bad idea.
 
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