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Required Training and Qualifications for Reserve Information Warfare Community (IWC) Officers

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
All, please see below the required training and qualifications for all Reserve IWC officers. This also applies to those Reserve officers who are changing their designators to an IWC designator from a non IWC designator.


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Are there any 1835s that can elaborate on the either-or situation for the basic course? I’m looking for the why someone would go to one over the other without more digging.

My first thought is that maybe candidates go to either school like a selection of IS’s and NECs where the 20 week school applies to some kind of INT (SIGINT, ELINT, COMINT) vice that shorter pipeline dealing with other areas (HUMINT, OSINT). Am I anywhere close?
 

AULANI

Well-Known Member
Are there any 1835s that can elaborate on the either-or situation for the basic course? I’m looking for the why someone would go to one over the other without more digging.

My first thought is that maybe candidates go to either school like a selection of IS’s and NECs where the 20 week school applies to some kind of INT (SIGINT, ELINT, COMINT) vice that shorter pipeline dealing with other areas (HUMINT, OSINT). Am I anywhere close?
No, you're not close but I don't know why an 1835 would want to go to the full NIOBC other than you really like VA Beach. There are no reservists in my NIOBC class. I'm not sure if there are any in the class ahead of me.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Some Reservists are unemployed and have the flexibility to go to the active course.

I am of the opinion that all Reservists should attend the active duty courses, regardless of designator. Why? It provides consistency with training and qualifications. The Reserve "courses" are pretty pathetic. I've done both the Reserve Intel pipeline and the IP pipeline. They were both horrible and a waste of time.

The Reserve leadership is finally cluing in to this. At least for new IP accessions they are required to go to the active duty course. Hopefully, all other designators follow suit.
 

bryanteagle6

Well-Known Member
All, please see below the required training and qualifications for all Reserve IWC officers. This also applies to those Reserve officers who are changing their designators to an IWC designator from a non IWC designator.


View attachment 20301
Sir
This is what I was given. It was from a larger document (that I was not given) that was dated 5 Apr 18. Is your document older or newer?! My document does not have the waiver asterisks on the IWBC anymore. Your thoughts on this?!

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AULANI

Well-Known Member
Thank you! Seeing that the reservist side gets less school time but similar course content seemed too good to be true.
Well, I'm still wondering how they crammed 20 weeks of stuff into 6 weeks for the reserve course. NIOBC isn't difficult but it moves at a pretty good pace. I'd be interested to see the course schedule laid out side-by-side to see what they compressed/cut out for the reserve side.
 

Hair Warrior

JO 1835
Contributor
Well, I'm still wondering how they crammed 20 weeks of stuff into 6 weeks for the reserve course. NIOBC isn't difficult but it moves at a pretty good pace. I'd be interested to see the course schedule laid out side-by-side to see what they compressed/cut out for the reserve side.
Active: 10 days for strike brief
Reserve: 1 day for strike brief
Active: Time built in for PT, PFA, etc.
Reserve: PT on your own time; course is not long enough to require PFA or really any medical stuff
Active: Tests spread out
Reserve: Test every other day, roughly
etc. etc.
Some other concepts are compressed to save time - remember it is RNIOBC

The schoolhouse has done an amazing job creating the program, and it produces a much higher quality output than the 18 months of DWEs that preceded it.
 

AULANI

Well-Known Member
Active: 10 days for strike brief
Reserve: 1 day for strike brief
Active: Time built in for PT, PFA, etc.
Reserve: PT on your own time; course is not long enough to require PFA or really any medical stuff
Active: Tests spread out
Reserve: Test every other day, roughly
etc. etc.
Some other concepts are compressed to save time - remember it is RNIOBC

The schoolhouse has done an amazing job creating the program, and it produces a much higher quality output than the 18 months of DWEs that preceded it.
Interesting, I assumed you guys just briefed less, not that they gave you less time to prepare. One correction though, we don't have time built-in to PT. We do however get off around 1630 most days which gives us enough time to work out on our own.
 

Hair Warrior

JO 1835
Contributor
You guys probably briefed more cumulatively, but we briefed more frequently. I think we had either a test or a brief almost every day.

It's all good though. I'm not saying we reservists know what you know. But, I think we generally know what the Navy needs us to know as reserve officers.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Well, I'm still wondering how they crammed 20 weeks of stuff into 6 weeks for the reserve course. NIOBC isn't difficult but it moves at a pretty good pace. I'd be interested to see the course schedule laid out side-by-side to see what they compressed/cut out for the reserve side.
The Reserve course is dog sh*t. It used to be in two parts: 18 months of computer based training during the drill weekend, followed by a two week AT in san diego.

How much are you actually going to learn and retain by only seeing the material one weekend a month??
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
I too feel everyone should be going through the same pipeline. NIOBC for all 1835s.

I also think that all officers should attend OCS and DCO needs to get removed.

Keep a standard across the board for Reserve and Active.
 

Hair Warrior

JO 1835
Contributor
The schoolhouse and CNIFR have worked tirelessly to make curriculum and concepts almost identical. It’s not perfect but it’s getting better. Frankly, 6 mo. at Dam Neck is an unrealistic expectation for the current 1835 ENSs and LTJGs. It would detract from the Navy more than the Navy gains by elongating the reserve training. The Navy knows it would lose access to a huge talent pool if it treats all 183Xs the exact same. Current reserve intel JOs are DASDs, PhD professors, and authors of national security nonfiction - they can’t/won’t join if the schooling isn’t able to be balanced against their family and civilian obligations. You won’t find a reserve intel O-1 in the Marines, Army, or Air Force who is anywhere near the experience level of a DASD, FBI supervisory agent, or PhD university professor, yet that type of expertise is not uncommon for butter bars in the Navy reserve - and that’s why DCO (and the 42 age max) is a differentiator for the Navy.
 
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bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Frankly, 6 mo. at Dam Neck is an unrealistic expectation for the current 1835 ENSs and LTJGs.
IMHO, the quality of the current training is sub-par and is not consistent with the active duty cadre. We have the same problem in the IP/1825 community which is why all new IP's are required to go to the active duty school. No exceptions.

It would detract from the Navy more than the Navy gains by elongating the reserve training. The Navy knows it would lose access to a huge talent pool if it treats all 183Xs the exact same. Current reserve intel JOs are DASDs, PhD professors, and authors of national security nonfiction - they can’t/won’t join if the schooling isn’t able to be balanced against their family and civilian obligations. You won’t find a reserve intel O-1 in the Marines, Army, or Air Force who is anywhere near the experience level of a DASD, FBI supervisory agent, or PhD university professor, yet that type of expertise is not uncommon for butter bars in the Navy reserve - and that’s why DCO (and the 42 age max) is a differentiator for the Navy.
Intel officers who come in and who are PhDs, DASD, FBI, etc., [insert super duper qualification] provide no more value to the Navy than any other candidate. The Navy just likes to tell DCO candidates this to increase the number of applications as well as to make the DCO process look more shiny. It's called marketing. The biggest one is speaking multiple languages. When I was an 1835 I knew several who spoke multiple languages and who got commissioned thinking they were going to be utilized in that capacity. Guess how often they used that skill?

The IP community is notorious for advertising stuff like this. That is, they want comms/cyber experts with PhD's and multiple certifications, etc., etc. None of that is needed to do the job on the Reserve side or when you mobilize. It's just another marketing ploy so the Navy can tell people how shiny they are. Frankly, these things are not even needed to get qualified or to succeed as an IP officer.

Aside from very rare exceptions in certain communities (SEAL, SOF, HUMINT, NCIS), guess who cares about some O1's day job? Nobody. Sure, people are "impressed" by your day time credentials, but at the end of the day, you are still a "no nothing" JO.

The Reserve [IWC] community would feel zero operational impact if these PhD's, DASD, and FBI agents did not get commissioned.

I'm not trying to minimize anyone's skills or credentials, however, if you can get through college with a decent degree and have drive, you will succeed as an IWC officer in any designator.

The Navy Reserve likes to recruit people with special civilian skills but, frankly, in my 10 years in the Reserve, I've never seen the "utilization" match the "stated advertising." If the Reserve force were more aligned with the Active Duty side, things would be different.
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
The schoolhouse and CNIFR have worked tirelessly to make curriculum and concepts almost identical. It’s not perfect but it’s getting better. Frankly, 6 mo. at Dam Neck is an unrealistic expectation for the current 1835 ENSs and LTJGs. It would detract from the Navy more than the Navy gains by elongating the reserve training. The Navy knows it would lose access to a huge talent pool if it treats all 183Xs the exact same. Current reserve intel JOs are DASDs, PhD professors, and authors of national security nonfiction - they can’t/won’t join if the schooling isn’t able to be balanced against their family and civilian obligations. You won’t find a reserve intel O-1 in the Marines, Army, or Air Force who is anywhere near the experience level of a DASD, FBI supervisory agent, or PhD university professor, yet that type of expertise is not uncommon for butter bars in the Navy reserve - and that’s why DCO (and the 42 age max) is a differentiator for the Navy.
Except it isnt an unreastic expectation to have all commissioned officers trained the same. Most designators don't do this and I don't know why IWC thinks it is a good idea. SWOs all train the same, Pilots all train the same, etc.

While a senior special agent, DASD, PhD professors, all have impressive civilian resumes, it wont help them much as new intelligence officers in the Navy.

People seem to mistakenly associate government work such as law enforcement or civilian intelligence work with being an 1835. It is not the same.

Naval intelligence is based on Maritime Opintel. That will be your primary job if you get sent out to sea or to a fleet or cocom staff. While you may rotate between jobs where maritime opintel isn't the speciality, you need to know it and you learn that has a ENS/LTJG.

Look at the board observations for milestone screen and promotion. All of them say opintel is the core competency. Having a PhD or being a professor won't help you with that when you are still learning.

Is having a PhD or being a SAC bad? No. But it means nothing to me if a 1835 has one.
 
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