Relationship Between Pilot and NFO

[wallythenycat]

Is it awkward at all when the senior officer of an aircraft is the NFO and not the pilot? After all, the pilot is flying the plane. But, in the case where the NFO is the senior officer, if the NFO in command of the craft?

And, why is an NFO needed at all if we have sophisticated computer based navigation systems today, and some craft, like some F-18s, do no even need a second seat?

Why are some F-18s one seaters and others two seaters at all?

 

[Brett327]

No, yes.
The NFO isn’t navigating, they’re operating the weapons system.
Variety is the spice of life.

 

[zippy]

Is it awkward at all when the senior officer of an aircraft is the NFO and not the pilot? After all, the pilot is flying the plane. But, in the case where the NFO is the senior officer, if the NFO in command of the craft?

And, why is an NFO needed at all if we have sophisticated computer based navigation systems today, and some craft, like some F-18s, do no even need a second seat?

Why are some F-18s one seaters and others two seaters at all?

Speaking generally,
Not as long as the NFO isn’t a total idiot and understands basic concepts of safety of flight and tactical employment of the aircraft. The reverse is also true when it comes to pilots.
Pilot is ultimately responsible for safety of flight but often the NFO will be the mission commander.

 

[wallythenycat]

Got it. Thanks the responses.

Do NFOs have the same educational, professional, and command opportunities as aviators do?

 

[zippy]

Got it. Thanks the responses.

Do NFOs have the same educational, professional, and command opportunities as aviators do?

Yes, in some communities every more, especially when airlines are on a hiring spree and pilots decide to chase quality of life and money over staying in.

 

[HSMPBR]

Yes, in some communities every more, especially when airlines are on a hiring spree and pilots decide to chase quality of life and money over staying in.

 

[wallythenycat]

I heard airlines used to hire navigators. I guess there is no NFO equivalent in the civilian world anymore?

 

[nittany03]

I heard airlines used to hire navigators. I guess there is no NFO equivalent in the civilian world anymore?

There never was. You either get civilian flight time and chase an airline job or do what many of us did and take your talents to the private sector.

 

[sevenhelmet]

There never was. You either get civilian flight time and chase an airline job or do what many of us did and take your talents to the private sector.

 

[HuggyU2]

There never was.

Not true.
The FAA Flight Navigator certificate is a thing. There are still a handful of people that have them.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[wink]

I heard airlines used to hire navigators. I guess there is no NFO equivalent in the civilian world anymore?

Long ago airliners did have navigators on the long overseas routes. As Huggy points out, you can still get a Navigator certificate from the FAA. Still, not an NFO equivalent. A NFO operates weapons systems. Generally, nav is a shared reasonability between pilot and NFO. P-3s had NFOs that flew in a navigator position, but it was largely an entry level position for a NFO in the crew. He would later become a Tactical Coordinator. The only true navigators in the Navy and Marine Corps are enlisted, on C-130s, not NFOs. Wait, does the C-130J or P-8 have navs any more?

 

[HuggyU2]

Wait, does the C-130J or P-8 have navs any more?

Certain variants of the C-130J (HC-130, MC-130) do have "Navs"... although the USAF changed the term to "CSO" a number of years ago.

My daughter was an MC-130P Nav, and only about 3-4 years ago, she was involved in an open water rescue about 800 nm off shore where there were systems failures on the -130 and she was literally doing old school Nav stuff to work the rescue. Yes, much of her work involved sensors and such... but when the cool stuff fails, having a working knowledge of basic (but often neglected) Nav skillsets is a good thing.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Certain variants of the C-130J (HC-130, MC-130) do have "Navs"... although the USAF changed the term to "CSO" a number of years ago.

My daughter was an MC-130P Nav, and only about 3-4 years ago, she was involved in an open water rescue about 800 nm off shore where there were systems failures on the -130 and she was literally doing old school Nav stuff to work the rescue. Yes, much of her work involved sensors and such... but when the cool stuff fails, having a working knowledge of basic (but often neglected) Nav skillsets is a good thing.

I once had to determine heading using the stars after a string of unlucky failures... luckily it was a cardinal-direction type of situation (head toward shore, see the lights, land with a few no-gyro vectors thrown in for extra fun). Nothing overly heroic, but it's still nice to have slept in my own bed that night and not in a life raft halfway to Africa.

 

[jmcquate]

I know the airlines had flight engineers. Did they navigate too?

 

[robav8r]

Certain variants of the C-130J (HC-130, MC-130) do have "Navs"... although the USAF changed the term to "CSO" a number of years ago.

My daughter was an MC-130P Nav, and only about 3-4 years ago, she was involved in an open water rescue about 800 nm off shore where there were systems failures on the -130 and she was literally doing old school Nav stuff to work the rescue. Yes, much of her work involved sensors and such... but when the cool stuff fails, having a working knowledge of basic (but often neglected) Nav skillsets is a good thing.

She was probably putting this device through its paces . . . .