Really??: Ten Thousand Feet and Ten Thousand Miles (A UAV Article)

[RobLyman]

...

So to bring it all full circle- I don't have a problem with giving awards out to drone pilots, because at least these awards are given for killing al-Qaeda, regardless of whatever personal danger they're in. I guarantee you that if every squadron emphasized awarding outstanding performance and punishing buffoonery in combat, we'd all be a hell of a lot better at the mission.

Meanwhile, the infantry dude on the ground gets a pat on the back for killing an insurgent with his M-4. The guy escorting the convoy on the ground gets a handshake...maybe.

Heck, the dude in the original article thinks the most danger he's in is while driving to work. Killing someone from thousands of miles away isn't bravery. However, exposing oneself to danger while continuing to do your job (and spending time away from your home and family) are worthy of recognition. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are some good deeds done by drone pilots, but NO DANGER = NO COMBAT RECOGNITION. And certainly not at the Bronze Star level.

Perhaps this is because the Bronze Star has gotten watered down. We had O-2 and O-3 doctors at our FOB who got them and they never left the FOB. Most never worked on a critical patient during the deployment (we took ours to BIAP or Tallil). Pilots in our company got them if they were O-3/W-4 and above. Yet the O1/O2/CW3/CW2 pilots, the E-6 and below crew chiefs and medics in the same aircraft got Air Medals.

Maybe it is due to the dfferences in services. While I don't know for sure, I would bet Air Force pilots flying above the danger in Iraq and Afghanistan are getting the same Air Medal the guys flying down n the dirt in the Army ad Marines are getting. The Navy? I think I recall someone mentioning an Air Medal for flying HSL around in the gulf.

 

[helolumpy]

Until he writes on an application "Received Nation's third highest decoration for conduct in combat..."

1. Medal of Honor
2. Navy Croos/DSC
3. Silver Star
4. Level 12 HALO Medal, however the medal is for achievement in cyber and drone warfare but the write up actually states that the recipient did not show valor in combat.

So, I'll look at this for what it is, an over-inflated staff medal. Granted the guys are having to make some life and death decisions but do so without expiriencing danger to themselves.

I will view this in the same manner as the small-craft pin which was concieved for the guys running small combat craft in wartime but now is given out to middies who drive the YP's around for the summer.

 

[BusyBee604]

1. Medal of Honor
2. Navy Croos/DSC
3. Silver Star
3.5 DFC
4. Level 12 HALO Medal, however the medal is for achievement in cyber and drone warfare but the write up actually states that the recipient did not show valor in combat.

FIFY
BzB

 

[Flash]

......I will view this in the same manner as the small-craft pin which was concieved for the guys running small combat craft in wartime but now is given out to middies who drive the YP's around for the summer.

Really?! How the hell do they get away with that? Up until the mid-90's it was pretty common for a middie to go on a cruise with a sub and come back wearing silver dolphins, the bubbleheads put a stop to that though.

 

[Jim123]

Maybe it is due to the dfferences in services.

Part of the Navy criteria for BSM is something about personal risk/exposure. Several years ago now (it's been "several" already), "Big Navy" kicked back a few BSMs awarded to sailors on IAs. The medals had met with approval but if you basically never left the FOB (and more than just once or twice) then you were probably out of luck and the Navy wouldn't authorize them.

One of my SWO friends sported the small craft pin and I'm pretty sure it wasn't for combat ops. I still remember the odd O wearing summer cruise silver dolphins but folks like that are getting rare in the last few years. I remember some of the paperwork games for flying so many sorties around the gulf (technique only- if you can get away with scheduling shorter bags, you'll rack up more mission points faster) although I will say that at least one of my friends whose squadron put in the paperwork for one of those "we flew a lot" air medals never saw it come back from the numbered fleet (no paperwork = no medal = somehow life goes on).

Concur with all the points so far about drone operators' high responsibility, nonexistent risk, and worthy contributions to the war effort.

 

[Spekkio]

Campaign ribbons and medals have existed back to at least WWII, so they're not a product of modern award inflation.

No one of any importance cares all that much about how many NAMs an Officer O4 and below has. They're liked gold stickers. Hence the name achievement and why they're given out so easily.

I've yet to meet a servicemember who thinks his actions warranted an award except for the occassional admin guy who wants to look or sound important. They usually tell you that they were "just doing their jobs." Medals don't bring back lost comrades. We don't do the job for the chest candy.

 

[BusyBee604]

Concur with all the points so far about drone operators' high responsibility, nonexistent risk, and worthy contributions to the war effort.

Roger that!

It occurs to me, in that the Bronze Star description states that it is the ground equivelant of the DFC, that ranking the proposed DWM between the DFC & BS... blows that equivalency right out of the water??? I think the general outcry will pressure the DOD into lowering DWM precedence, as it should.
BzB

 

[Flash]

Part of the Navy criteria for BSM is something about personal risk/exposure. Several years ago now (it's been "several" already), "Big Navy" kicked back a few BSMs awarded to sailors on IAs. The medals had met with approval but if you basically never left the FOB (and more than just once or twice) then you were probably out of luck and the Navy wouldn't authorize them........

It still happens though, especially if you are high enough ranking.

 

[BackOrdered]

Really?! How the hell do they get away with that? Up until the mid-90's it was pretty common for a middie to go on a cruise with a sub and come back wearing silver dolphins, the bubbleheads put a stop to that though.

He is referring to the Craftmaster pin. In all honesty, isn't "handed out."

 

[helolumpy]

BzB,
I did not include the DFC since it could be earned for outstanding airmanship that may not involve combat. Since the post I referred to referenced combat, I originally had it, but then deleted it.

http://dfcsociety.net/?page_id=306

I agree that most DFC's are for heroism in combat, it could be presented for a pilot who did something exceptional in peacetime.

 

[BigRed389]

1. Medal of Honor

2. Navy Croos/DSC
3. Silver Star
4. Level 12 HALO Medal, however the medal is for achievement in cyber and drone warfare but the write up actually states that the recipient did not show valor in combat.

So, I'll look at this for what it is, an over-inflated staff medal. Granted the guys are having to make some life and death decisions but do so without expiriencing danger to themselves.

I will view this in the same manner as the small-craft pin which was concieved for the guys running small combat craft in wartime but now is given out to middies who drive the YP's around for the summer.

Bad gouge.

I've got the small craft pin and it has nothing to do with YPs. You're thinking Craftmaster pin, which is for YPs, tugs, LCACs/LCUs.
One's for combat craft, the other's support craft.
And of course, SWCC does their own thing.

 

[helolumpy]

Mea culpa, wrong pin.

 

[Catmando]

Wish my old CAG could read this discussion. He's probably rolling over in his grave.

According to him you had to take on enemy fire regardless of the success of the mission (except for downing a MiG, of course) to be put in for a medal. And by taking on enemy fire, he didn't mean just a few sporadic enemy rounds either, or SAMS. It had to be"heavy" or "intense" enemy fire.

Otherwise he believed $65 monthly combat pay was enough for you to do your job.

 

[Brett327]

 

[phrogpilot73]

I will view this in the same manner as the small-craft pin which was concieved for the guys running small combat craft in wartime but now is given out to middies who drive the YP's around for the summer.

Really?! How the hell do they get away with that? Up until the mid-90's it was pretty common for a middie to go on a cruise with a sub and come back wearing silver dolphins, the bubbleheads put a stop to that though.

As has been determined, he's referring to the crafmaster pin. However, mids who go on their summer cruise on YPs don't get the craftmaster pin. The only guys that get it are the uber-motivated wannabe SWOs at the Naval Academy that are members of the YP Squadron. Seriously, as an extracurricular - these guys man up the YPs and tool around on them. The Commanding Officer of each YP in the YP Squadron is a mid, as is the Executive Officer, Navigator, etc... It's where the weirdos hang out. And get a craftmaster pin.

Here's a glimpse into their weird sub-culture...