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Random Griz Aviation Musings

HAL Pilot said:
A lot of base to final turn stall horn...
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Meh. A precision approach can be like that and still be more than safe. That's also not uncommon for mountain flying approaches to short fields (which are essentially the same idea...precision approach to a point with minimum safe airspeed, which is often not 1.3 Vso).
 
Gatordev said:
Meh. A precision approach can be like that and still be more than safe. That's also not uncommon for mountain flying approaches to short fields (which are essentially the same idea...precision approach to a point with minimum safe airspeed, which is often not 1.3 Vso).
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It also demonstrates what is a safe speed in wings level might not be safe with any bank on the plane.

I'm not saying it was unsafe. If I remember correctly, the stall horn goes off 5 to 10 knots before stall and since it was barely starting to go off before Chuck corrected I'll assume it was closer to the 10 knot figure. I never took a mountain flying course and I haven't flown GA in 14 years. But during all my training and as a CFI getting a stall horn before the flare was not normal or considered within acceptable maneuvers tolerance for any landing maneuver. Getting slow and low in a base to final turn was the killer stall example that was hammered into student's heads to never allow.
 
Thread drift, but I do a bunch of flights where we tuft the wing to show the stall progression (low wing Warrior). Surprising just how much detached airflow there is at the wing root before the stall warning goes off.
 
xmid said:
This really screwed up my weekend plans. I thought Sky Dive San Diego was on the ropes before. I fear this may be the nail in their coffin. That T. Otter was on lease from Skydive Kapowsin primarily for SDSD's SPECWAR contracts. I've jumped out of it many times.
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Most of the Diver Operators here use Caravans.... they fly Vy to 14.5k then flight idle back down.....usually around $20 per lift per person.
 
AllAmerican75 said:
Whereabouts were you when this pic was taken? That particular bend of the Shenandoah looks mighty familiar. I'm curious if it's part where I used to go stomping around when I was at the Virginia Institute for Wayward Youth.
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Just north of Luray. My guess is somewhere near Compton. Lots of people enjoying the river today.
 
HAL Pilot said:
It also demonstrates what is a safe speed in wings level might not be safe with any bank on the plane.

I'm not saying it was unsafe. If I remember correctly, the stall horn goes off 5 to 10 knots before stall and since it was barely starting to go off before Chuck corrected I'll assume it was closer to the 10 knot figure. I never took a mountain flying course and I haven't flown GA in 14 years. But during all my training and as a CFI getting a stall horn before the flare was not normal or considered within acceptable maneuvers tolerance for any landing maneuver. Getting slow and low in a base to final turn was the killer stall example that was hammered into student's heads to never allow.
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I don't disagree with your points. I'd also offer that different flying regimes, along with different airframes, yield different requirements. I know that's not new news to you, just stating a preface. As an example, for short fields in high DA, flying 1.3 Vso won't work, and instead flying MSA (in a precision manner, of course) is a better approach. And yes, I get that MSA requirements have changed, as previously the PTS (or whatever it's called now) said you could have intermittent stall warning, it's now changed to say keep it just above the warning.

And this isn't meant to counter anything you're saying, just pilot talk here... Some planes are way more sensitive to approach speed than others. Historically, it was a big deal for my plane, and the issue was people would fly it like they learned how to fly a 150/172. That is, they'd fly some sort of approach speed and fix it in the flare. My plane is much more sensitive in that a fast landing can result in porposing and prop strike, which is why it got a bad reputation in the past. As it turns out, it's very docile, you just have to actually fly it correctly. As a result, it's not uncommon to get a stall in the flare with a very smooth touchdown.

Again, I don't think we're in disagreement with the overall intent. I just come at it from flying something that absolutely required you to be on-speed from the base turn to touchdown, and if you got aggressive with it (not in a bad way) or you got bumped around in turbulence, the stall horn sounds and it's not the end of the world.

Hopefully I'm conveying that this would be a good pilot discussion over beer and not as a counter to your points.
 
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