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Rand study on USAF pilot retention

Jim123

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Treetop Flyer said:
Next chuck will tell us that Jeremiah Weed doesn’t taste like shit and that Dos Gringos aren’t terrible.
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Dang... off the top rope!

Chuck can hover. Chuck got to fly a jet. That's two things you guys have in common.

Chuck flew a jet that has two engines and more than an hour of gas... ohhhh, now I see it.

:p



(Chuck can tell his own story, but it was basically a zoomie hooking him up with a surprise joyride fam flight to show gratitude for helicopter training that was part of a pipeline the zoomie was going through for whatever billet he was headed to next.)
 
HuggyU2

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
BTW, based on the photos above, I’m trying to imagine what their football helmets would look like if North Korea were to field a pro football team. It’s just too sad to think bout.
 
Jim123

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
HuggyU2 said:
Wait... what??

Heretic!!! BURN THE WITCH!!!
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Next thing @HuggyU2 is going to tell us that @Treetop Flyer turned him into a newt.

ShockingRectangularBarnswallow-size_restricted.gif
 
Swanee

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
SlickAg said:
Imagine you're the MO in your squadron. And AE3 (AW) Timmy had done a good job for you in the Avionics shop but he did his four years and he's getting out. He's going to go back home and work in the family tire shop. There's an Air National Guard unit in his hometown, and he has some buddies from high school there. He'd like to keep serving part-time so he can transfer his GI Bill, earn some extra money, and help out his young family. Plus, he liked his time in the Navy: the camaraderie, the friendships, and the chance to feel like he had done something special and really made a difference.

But the Navy won't let him do an inter service transfer to the ANG- he can’t get a conditional release. Because Big Navy screwed up their manning and are short AE3s. If he was an AD3 he could switch seamlessly because the Navy doesn't need AD3s. Or if he were an AE1, because they're fat on E-6s in his rate. Tough luck for Timmy. But what about the Navy reserve you might say? The nearest NOSC (navy reserve center) is an eight hour drive away. He'd like to keep serving his country but he'd like to do it a little bit closer to home.

Nope, he has to go into the IRR as an AE3. No ANG for you. "Pick your rate, pick your fate".

And we're the idiots for thinking that the Navy should help Timmy out? Would he have been as loyal to the Navy during his service if he knew the Navy wouldn't be loyal to him when it was time for him to leave? Everyone loses in this situation. And you’re implying that Timmy is weaponizing his service by thinking it’s fair for him to be granted a conditional release to join the ANG?

It should anger all leaders in all services that the Marine Corps just did this to all O-3 and below aviators.
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Shack.
 
pilot_man

pilot_man

Ex-Rhino driver
pilot
Recovering LSO said:
I'm sure this question will whip of a good ol' fashion shit show, but how many of the folks expressing the most discontent and angst with Naval Aviation got their first choice out of Primary?

There are people in every platform the Navy flies who are unhappy about their lot in life for one reason or another, but i wonder sometimes if the point of divergence made six months into one's career isn't where a lot of unhappiness and discontent starts; or at least makes it A LOT easier to grow discontented and disgruntled along the way?

separately:

Generally speaking, service means being okay with this, and not using it as a cudgel.
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So much wow to this post. I wonder why so many seemingly exceptional VFA pilots have been leaving in droves recently then. Why we can't meet our quotas and put butts in seats. Must have been that they weren't happy with the divergence 6 months into their careers.
 
Recovering LSO

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
scoolbubba said:
I’m not sure what your point for the first part is, since the most desirable (except for the last couple months where 50.1s were getting drafted and numero uno was going p-8s) communities are hurting the worst to fill DH seats.

As to the second, it’s not a cudgel to expect leaders to advocate on behalf of their people, especially if they need them. If there are things in their power to make service more attractive, and they have a retention problem, why wouldn’t they try that?
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I'm old enough to know Hornet guys that were bent they didn't get Tomcats; S-3 guys pissed they didn't get Hornets; Prowler dudes pissed they didn't get anything else; P-3 guys pissed they didn't get TACAMO; 53 guys pissed they didn't get 60s; Hawkeye dudes pissed they didn't get CODs - and so on and so forth. So I could/should have more accurately phrased my question instead of one of Primary selection, but of a series of early career inflection points that set the arc for one's career - however long that ended up being. Guys who end up putting significant effort into a career track they weren't excited about tend, IMO, to be the ones who are the first to hone in on everything else that is wrong. Dont misunderstand me, there is plenty that is "wrong," but I'm supposing guys who weren’t thrilled to be where they are in the first place are some of the first get sour. In short, it’s not what they signed up for.

To the VFA/VAQ question, similar thing. The material condition and lack of predictable budgeting has translated to less flying. Maybe those guys are where they dreamed theyd be, but they're not doing what they thought they’d be doing, or as much of it. Some blame to go around there: misguided/mismanaged expectations, and misguided senior leadership decisions.

This is pretty non-controversial guys - but make of it what you will.


SlickAg said:
How is he or anyone else here using their service as a weapon?

We've all earned the right to have an opinion of what's happening in our military. An internet connection and a computer give us the ability to share them with each other.
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squorch2 said:
Griping about those that haven’t served doesn’t seem to have a place in discussions on feeling left behind in service.
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Plenty of reasons to be upset with decisions senior leaders have made (and undoubtedly will continue to make), but I think it's important that we separate those complaints from the idea of service to a civilian population. I believe we should be grateful that such a large proportion of our population hasn't had to serve. Now, I freely admit that I pulled that one quote from @schoolbubba's longer post, and taking it out of context suggests or implies something that might not have been there or intended.
 
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Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Recovering LSO said:
...but I'm supposing guys who weren’t thrilled to be where they are in the first place are some of the first get sour. In short, it’s not what they signed up for.
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I think a lot less of a delta exists between those who got what they wanted and those who didn't getting sour than you might suppose, at least from what I've seen recently in the reserves plenty of whom had pretty viable careers ahead of them on active duty.

Recovering LSO said:
To the VFA/VAQ question, same thing. The material condition and lack of predictable budgeting has translated to less flying. Maybe those guys are where they dreamed they be, but their not doing what they thought they’d be doing. Some blame to go around there: misguided expectations, and misguided senior leadership decisions.
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I might be going out on a limb here...but not really....and would be willing to blame the less flying thing, a lot less in some cases, on poor leadership at the military and political levels rather than on misguided expectations.

Not sure if I'm conflating two different points from your post but my main point remains, sailors will always bitch but now you have a steady but growing stream Naval Aviators who are voting with their feet. Those more bitter folks who didn't get E-6's or COD's may have turned sour a little earlier, or not, but I think they are more the canaries in the coal mine instead of the crazy people on the corner who have been saying the world was going to end tomorrow for the last 20 years.
 
wlawr005

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I'll throw this out from my perspective, this is rather anecdotal so take it for what it's worth.

Yesterday I walked on a Lot 24 Super Hornet with no IDECM suite, a mechanically scanned radar, and a software version that isn't even mentioned anymore anywhere people speak tactics (H10+). The jet had a CATM-9X on it, but that 9X is the only one available to our squadron. I walked 45 minutes late because of maintenance issues. It was also one of two up jets out of the seven out squadron has. All but one of our down jets is awaiting parts.

Sounds like a bad day, but this is the state our squadron has been in my entire JO tour, except the year or so we worked up and deployed.

My mission was to go meet an Air Guard Viper for a BFM mission. This Viper had three CATMs and some other Gucci stuff on it. So did his wingman. Those two Guard F16s were carrying more CATMs than my entire air wing could muster for a daily flight schedule.

The point is, the Air Force has a lot of stuff going for it and people there are still getting out in droves. Whatever is going to fix their problem is not going to fix ours. I know plenty of Navy guys who'd stay in if my first paragraph didn't reflect the state of utter disrepair our VFA community is facing.
 
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