Racism in the Military

[HAL Pilot]

Skipper is standing there by his lonesome hanging out and this guy from a table with two couples sees him standing there, grabs his dirty plate and hands it to the skipper and says "I'm done with this."

Talking to him later, he said, "Shit like that happens all the time."

I have a black friend who is pretty high put in management for a major pharmaceutical company.

During my DH tour in JAX, we were neighbors and spent a lot of time together. We’d go to movies, Gator games in Gainesville, etc.

He and I went to Spije Lee’s Malcolm X movie. We walked into the theater and I was the only white guy. I got called every derogatory name for a white person there is. The blavks were pissed that a white guy was going to see a black movie.

Rick was born and raised in Gainesville. After the game, we go to diners in his old neighborhood. Every time I would get called derogatory names.

My ex mother-in-law is Japanese. She lived with us in JAX. Blacks in stores, restaurants, etc would treat her like shit and call her derogatory names.

I also attended a Norfolk, VA intercity high school in the mid to late 1970s that was 85% black. I lived the other side of bad race relations.

Racism is everywhere and happens to everyone by everyone. To say it is limited to non-whites is absolutely false.

Someone within an organization might be discriminated against by someone else within the same organization but that doesn’t mean the organization is racist. The military is not racist.

Your example and mine have nothing to do with the military. I’m not sure way you post yours because it has nothing to do the the question of whether the military as an organization is racist. I post mine to show racism goes both ways.

I get so tired of people claiming it’s always the whites that are racist (not saying you make this claim). My belief that there are just as many blacks who are racist against whites as there are whites who are racist against blacks (by percentage not actual numbers are there are more whites than blacks). But that is not “news worthy” as there once was a very real organizational / institutional racism against blacks. So it’s okay for blacks / non-whites to be racist against whites. This is demonstrated easily by the simple fact a black guy can call a white guy a cracker but heaven help the white guy using the n word.

Articles like this NYT piece play into thus mindset are designed to stir the pot. They do far more far to race relations then they help. They are not news but rather an attempt to make news.

 

[taxi1]

I’m not sure way you post yours because it has nothing to do the the question of whether the military as an organization is racist.

Actually you can argue my post shows the military isn't racist. He was a high flying O6 who could have likely made flag if he hadn't made the decision to not put in a letter.

And he recognized that the guy who handed him the plate wasn't being overtly racist. The guy just assumed on autopilot that he worked there since he was black, and the guy was done eating. The Skipper took the plate and put it on the counter and left.

It's a societal thing.

I'm a mil brat too, dad (chief) was stationed at NAS Norfolk. I went to high school in VA Beach same time you did in Norfolk.

 

[Sam I am]

He and I went to Spike Lee’s Malcolm X movie. We walked into the theater and I was the only white guy. I got called every derogatory name for a white person there is. The blacks were pissed that a white guy was going to see a black movie.

True story: I'm about to go on my first deployment out of Norfolk and my wife and the wife of a fellow JO who'd already deployed take me out for dinner and a movie. Since I'm shipping out I get to pick the movie. I should also mention that I love motorcycles and so I picked Biker Boyz. We walk into the theatre and it's PACKED! We're also the only 3 white people in the whole theatre. So we amble on down the aisle looking for three seats together and we find them. But as we're walking down the aisle it gets real quiet. From somewhere some dude says, "Shiiiiiiiit, white boy has two of them...he's going to have some fun tonight!" and the whole place (including us) cracks up. I can't lie, I may have been walking a little taller after that remark. I also can't lie: that movie was terrible and neither my wife or my friend have forgiven me for robbing them of 2 hours of their life. I still can't lie: there was no epic Sam I am sandwich that night either.

Burn rubber, not your soul.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

One only has to glance around the ready room to see how homogenous the officer corps, especially those who are pilots, is.

Is it racism? I don't think so.

Is it access? Probably. I've asked this kind of question to some really smart and talented enlisted folks who IMO would have done just as well as the rest of us in college, OCS, TBS and flight school. They've told me that it wasn't even something that they thought they could do- no one they know does this.

Had an enlisted Asian with a masters in ME. Could not believe it. He was actually able to describe to me (somewhat) why we used an N7 number in the DETC, that was the compressors imaginary 7th stage pressure in a 4-stage compressor (what?). I don't remember the description anymore, and said individual was working towards OCS when I left and hopefully made it, but....

Yes mentorship helps, but TBH I came from a non-mil fam. Decided to get in to become an astronaut (lol). I had a co-op at United Space Alliance, and scored an interview (from co-workers) with a retired 2-star admiral that if I remember correctly was head of Operations at the time, and I knew nowhere near enough to know how important that was or how to act, and managed to not get an LOR from him. Not every white officer comes from a family of the same either is the point I guess... This website got me in, as I imagine many others!

 

[Spekkio]

Is it access? Probably. I've asked this kind of question to some really smart and talented enlisted folks who IMO would have done just as well as the rest of us in college, OCS, TBS and flight school. They've told me that it wasn't even something that they thought they could do- no one they know does this.

This is by design.

When I called the number from the official navy website listed on the officer program page, it was to the local enlisted recruiter. Went in for a meeting and two Sailors heckled me for a good 5 minutes for wanting to become an officer and stated ridiculous (and fake) requirements. I stood firm (it helped that I met their made up bs) and they eventually forwarded my info to an OR.

You'd think that in the modern day of internet people with degrees wouldn't get duped (just like you'd think the majority of the public would zero their tax return), but a lot of enlisted Sailors with degrees join 'for the job experience', even though that experience will not be commensurate with their level of education.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Articles like this NYT piece play into thus mindset are designed to stir the pot. They do far more far to race relations then they help. They are not news but rather an attempt to make news.

Makes one wonder about the timing and purpose of the article in an election year. Real racism in the military is terrible wherever it may occur. But nothing I’ve seen in the NYT articles is “breaking news” in the sense of timeliness, and the article about leadership would probably have fallen flat if published in the era of Colin Powell as CJCS.

 

[squorch2]

And he recognized that the guy who handed him the plate wasn't being overtly racist. The guy just assumed on autopilot that he worked there since he was black, and the guy was done eating. The Skipper took the plate and put it on the counter and left.

That's racism.

 

[CommodoreMid]

This is by design.

When I called the number from the official navy website listed on the officer program page, it was to the local enlisted recruiter. Went in for a meeting and two Sailors heckled me for a good 5 minutes for wanting to become an officer and stated ridiculous (and fake) requirements. I stood firm (it helped that I met their made up bs) and they eventually forwarded my info to an OR.

You'd think that in the modern day of internet people with degrees wouldn't get duped (just like you'd think the majority of the public would zero their tax return), but a lot of enlisted Sailors with degrees join 'for the job experience', even though that experience will not be commensurate with their level of education.

Had a similar thing happen to me in high school. I was applying to all the academies and all the ROTCs and one day got a call from an Army recruiter. Had just submitted my Army ROTC application a few days earlier so figured it was in response to that. Instead he was telling me there was no way to do ROTC out of high school and the only way to be an officer was to enlist first. I just hung up.

 

[nittany03]

That's racism.

Thank you for this blinding flash of the completely obvious; I’m sure none of us troglodytes would have picked up on that otherwise.

 

[Sonog]

Racism has been elevated to a level of evil (it is evil) in our society that people are very rarely ready to admit that they have acted or have ever felt overtly racist ever in their life. To the point where people don't look at their own actions in a critical, self-improving light. It is so evil, and like the term "nazi", it is thrown around like an insult rather than a condition or an action. The human nature will be defend, defend, defend if ever accused of racism. To the point that they are performing Aly Raisman level performances of mental gymnastics to bend their minds to avoid any admission of self racism.

 

[squorch2]

Thank you for this blinding flash of the completely obvious; I’m sure none of us troglodytes would have picked up on that otherwise.

A hit dog will holler.

 

[Gonzo08]

I'd been debating adding this book recommendation to the "What are you reading?" thread, but I think it's worth mentioning here.

I'm currently about halfway through White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo. It's a thought-provoking dissertation on how the deep-seated issues of racism in the US are currently masked and hand-waived by whites. It's only about 130 pages, so it's a quick-ish read if a little dry at times.

The New Yorker published an article on the book if anyone is interested in a better synopsis than my NFO-brain is capable of.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

This is by design.

When I called the number from the official navy website listed on the officer program page, it was to the local enlisted recruiter. Went in for a meeting and two Sailors heckled me for a good 5 minutes for wanting to become an officer and stated ridiculous (and fake) requirements. I stood firm (it helped that I met their made up bs) and they eventually forwarded my info to an OR.

You'd think that in the modern day of internet people with degrees wouldn't get duped (just like you'd think the majority of the public would zero their tax return), but a lot of enlisted Sailors with degrees join 'for the job experience', even though that experience will not be commensurate with their level of education.

I saw that problem when I started as an OR, shortly after they put in place a requirement that anyone who went to process for enlisted that had a 4 year degree had to talk to an OR and the OR had to sign off on the individual processing for enlisted, it was met with some resistance but it only took a few people having their processing stopped at MEPS and then the CR being told by the CO when he CR complains that the problem is with his people for not following what he (the CO) new policy was.

 

[wink]

A hit dog will holler.

Plenty of dogs hit never deserved it.

 

[HAL Pilot]

dissertation on how the deep-seated issues of racism in the US are currently masked and hand-waived by whites.

Because only whites are racist....

My counter without even reading it is while there are racist whites and there is a past history of racism by whites in society such as KKK and segregation, there is also deep seated racism against whites especially by blacks. The majority of blacks seem to assume the majority of whites are racist. Blacks also tend to blame whites for the majority of their problems as a race. Yes there is some blame to be laid on whites but there is blame to be laid on blacks themselves. Whites don't cause blacks to not go to school and get educated, whites don't cause blacks to not have a stable family life, whites don't cause blacks to commit crimes, etc. Yet black leaders always blame these things on the white man. The views many blacks have about whites are racist (reverse racism).

A white guy that says anything about a black is almost automatically deemed as a racist. White guy says Obama had bad policies as president, blacks (and liberals) say the white guy must be racist if he didn't like Obama's policies. They completely ignore the policies and say it's because of Obama's skin color.

So if you're going to talk about masked deep-seated issues of racism, talk about how it exists in all races not just whites.