Prone Float...more like Prone Sinking.

[pilotboy17]

Hey guys, I just met with all the instructors for the first day of API (25 Jun 2010) and swim instructors. It doesn't look THAT bad as people make it out to be. I am fine with all PRT standards and I don't think I should have a problem with academics. I am a CFI/CFII and graduated top of my class with an Aviation Science major. Yes, I've heard the stories that these are the worst people because they often can't learn the Navy way. I am very good at adapting and will do anything to get my wings, even if it means relearning things. Flying for the military is my dream.

I did have one thing to ask though...It'll sound funny at first, but I am in the Coast Guard and I've never really been the best swimmer (all Coasties aren't rescue swimmers like some people assume). I never took swim lessons when I was younger, just kind of tried to copy what other people did (come to find out it was all wrong). I passed basic training requirements and then OCS requirements marginally.

Now I am at flight school. I have been practicing a lot with a friend who had lots of swimming experience and now finally realized the majority of it was all technique in the first place. I am confident on the mile swim now, especially when I found out goggles can be used. So one told me you couldn't use them so I stressed a little. I was doing the breast stroke wrong the entire time in the past, using arm stroke and frog kick strokes simultaneously which tired me out VERY fast, instead of frog kick, glide, then stroke in one fluid motion. I am also kind of a bulkier type body style with probably 12% body fat (I never ever met the body mass index, according to it I am overweight), so I used to blame it on that causing me to sink, but it was mainly poor technique.

But here lies the problem now: I heard the swim instructor say that for our second swim class (WS-2), we have to pass it or we can't continue with the class. They put you in swim hold. You have to jump off the tower, swim 100 yds (25 crawl, 25 breast, 25 side, 25 back), tread water 2 minutes, then 5 minute prone float. I can do everything easily BUT the prone float. I was in the pool with my buddy for almost 2 hrs trying to get me to do the Prone float, trying different body positions, using a slight scull, and I just naturally sink. He was trying to figure out where I was neutrally buoyant. We are going back today to a deeper pool to see how far down I will sink before I stop sinking lol. I know it sounds funny, but scared I will get sent back for something like that. It's not like I can't do it. I'm doing everything I'm supposed to (deep breath of air, proper form, face down, etc), it's just I can't change how my body is. I just start to sink. Just another note, I can back float fine, too.

I'm also thinking with all the bulky Marines out there, I can't be the only one going through this? If anyone can give some advice, please let me know. I will also ask the instructor during the WS-1 class. It's the weekend and I just want to see if I can do anything else to prepare at the pool.

Thank you.

 

[wlawr005]

Remember that the prone float is an excercise testing your ability to remain motionless in the water in order to lower your heart rate and conserve energy. In order to do this, it is important that you remain as motionless as possible. While doing this, there are a lot of guys that sink and finding out where you are neutrally bouyant will be a big help.

If you sink deep, it can affect your breathing rhythm, so you want to try to stay as close to the surface of the water as possible (1-3 ft). If you sink deeper than that, you will have to expend energy to swim to the surface and thusly defeat the purpose of the excercise. For dense guys like yourself, staying close to the surface can be tough. The best way I've found is to position your body so that you get the maximum buoyancy out of your lungs. While face down, bend at the waist and try to get your legs directly under your chest with a good arch in your back. It may feel as though you are sticking your butt in the air. This way, when you sink, your waist/butt should remain closer to the surface than the rest of your body.

Another tip is a little counterintuitive. Make sure you take a really deep breath and maintain the posture described above. Usually, although you sink at first you should attempt to remain absolutely motionless. Eventually, most people tend to float towards the surface again after a few seconds.

Lastly, remember to breathe. Take a breath at designated intervals, say every 5-7 seconds. Sometimes people forget to breathe and end up tiring themselves out aerobically towards the end of the 5 minutes.

I hope this helps, good luck.

 

[Floppy_D]

The instructors over there are top-notch. They see people every day who can't swim or float, for all sorts of reasons, and they are there to help you succeed. I couldn't swim either, so I ended up on three weeks of hold swim. It turned out to be a good thing, because it really built up my confidence in the water.

 

[CommodoreMid]

I second the awesomeness of the instructors there. I was on remediation for about a week because the tower jump and I did not agree as I HATE HATE HATE swimming underwater. They worked with me until I got it. Same with the guys at the dunker. If you're not the greatest at water related activities, this part of API will suck, but at the end of the day, worry most about academics as that's the stuff that can end you.

 

[pilotboy17]

Remember that the prone float is an excercise testing your ability to remain motionless in the water in order to lower your heart rate and conserve energy. In order to do this, it is important that you remain as motionless as possible. While doing this, there are a lot of guys that sink and finding out where you are neutrally bouyant will be a big help.

If you sink deep, it can affect your breathing rhythm, so you want to try to stay as close to the surface of the water as possible (1-3 ft). If you sink deeper than that, you will have to expend energy to swim to the surface and thusly defeat the purpose of the excercise. For dense guys like yourself, staying close to the surface can be tough. The best way I've found is to position your body so that you get the maximum buoyancy out of your lungs. While face down, bend at the waist and try to get your legs directly under your chest with a good arch in your back. It may feel as though you are sticking your butt in the air. This way, when you sink, your waist/butt should remain closer to the surface than the rest of your body.

Another tip is a little counterintuitive. Make sure you take a really deep breath and maintain the posture described above. Usually, although you sink at first you should attempt to remain absolutely motionless. Eventually, most people tend to float towards the surface again after a few seconds.

Lastly, remember to breathe. Take a breath at designated intervals, say every 5-7 seconds. Sometimes people forget to breathe and end up tiring themselves out aerobically towards the end of the 5 minutes.

I hope this helps, good luck.

Thanks for the quick response. I really appreciate the help. I will try this today at the MWR pool, since the training pool at NAS Whiting Field is closed. I think we tried a variation of the tucking my knees in but it didn't work. I think I need to remain more calm and try harder to remain motionless, even if I feel myself sink.

Other ways my friend and I were thinking of was to just start eating a lot of the chocolate cake balls (melted chocolate over "spheres" of chocolate cake) my fiance makes and try to fatten up, or pull out the pockets in my swim trunks. I wish it was that easy, but I guess it's another one of those challenges you just keep fighting through.

 

[pilotboy17]

The instructors over there are top-notch. They see people every day who can't swim or float, for all sorts of reasons, and they are there to help you succeed. I couldn't swim either, so I ended up on three weeks of hold swim. It turned out to be a good thing, because it really built up my confidence in the water.

I second the awesomeness of the instructors there. I was on remediation for about a week because the tower jump and I did not agree as I HATE HATE HATE swimming underwater. They worked with me until I got it. Same with the guys at the dunker. If you're not the greatest at water related activities, this part of API will suck, but at the end of the day, worry most about academics as that's the stuff that can end you.

Thanks for your input. It definitely made me feel a lot better that I'm not the only one who sucks at swimming. I just felt embarrassed when I seemed to be the only one at the first day meeting the swim instructors to admit to not being very strong, especially as a Coast Guard guy in front of several Marines, Navy, and 2 Air Force. Like one of the API instructors said, most of us have never failed at anything before coming here, so it's hard when you do at flight training. But I won't give up!

 

[wlawr005]

As far as tucking your knees, really exaggerate the arch in your back. I tell my students to "try and touch the ceiling with your butt". You can also think of it as trying to bend down and touch your toes underwater. Physically, it changes the position of your center of gravity realitive to your center of bouyancy, thereby helping you float better.

Remaining calm is very important. The tests get harder when they put you in a flight suit and make you tread water with flight gear on. If you can learn to convince yourself to remain calm and breathe normally, you will have beaten the hardest part of the test.

Good luck...

 

[Krafty1]

The testable prone float is actually a 2 minute tread and 7 minute prone float in full flight gear. It sucks. That said I don't float, and still made it. The secret to that evolution is to relax and not wear yourself out during the tread. The guys who struggled kept kicking and flailing when they were supposed to be floating. I was very close to going in swim hold but even if you end up in swim hold, it isn't that bad. Typically is two weeks and I've had friends go through who are much better swimmers because of it.

There is a bit of a strategy to the tower jump, the instructors will tell you to stay in the abandon ship position when you hit the water but they don't care WHERE you hit the water, if that makes sense

 

[NavAir42]

You could always try getting fatter

When I started API I weighed just over 170 and would initially sink a couple feet before slowly bobbing back to the surface. I remember it feeling like it took forever and thus didn't enjoy the prone float all that much. Two years, more beer than I can remember and fifteen pounds later, going back through the swim course here in Jax the prone float was easy, relaxing even. Sadly that was probably the only bennefit to getting fatter.

 

[hlg6016]

The hardest thing I had to do was the float and the treading water bit because I wasn't comfortable in the water. Granted that was back in the dark ages but I do remember the instructers where great as for as teaching us (remedial swimmers) how to get past the under water heebie-jeebies. Keep plugging, for me at least it was more of a mental obstacle than anything else.

 

[HeyJoe]

Thanks for your input. It definitely made me feel a lot better that I'm not the only one who sucks at swimming. I just felt embarrassed when I seemed to be the only one at the first day meeting the swim instructors to admit to not being very strong, especially as a Coast Guard guy in front of several Marines, Navy, and 2 Air Force. Like one of the API instructors said, most of us have never failed at anything before coming here, so it's hard when you do at flight training. But I won't give up!

Bravo to you for speaking up and tackling this hurdle head on. Sounds like you've focused on the two challenges: mastering the technique(s) and your mental blocks. Getting into pool as much as possible as you've discerned is key and you've figured out that instructors are there to help and they really know what they are doing. I saw even literal non-swimmers master the various tests that are very daunting even to some folks who grew up in the water.

Don't forget to relax and practice deep breathing and holding your breath to increase capacity of your lungs. Everyone, is a non-swimmer at some point and I'll maintain that anyone who is physically fit can master the techniques, but overcoming the mental trepidation of being under water is just as key so you can focus on technique and not panic.

 

[Archanan7]

I'm in your class as well. I've been in the water my entire life and lifeguarded/swim instructed for 10 years prior to service. Still, the prone float is difficult for me cause with the adrenalin of the test my HR gets up and I feel the need to breathe too rapidly for the test to be easy. The 5 mins I did at OCS (did it twice for 3rd and 2nd class tests same day) was incredibly difficult for me, so yes even some of the tests like heyjoe says are daunting for experienced swimmers but with practice you can make it. The only other consistent difficulty I heard and/or witnessed was instructors harping on people for form with the breaststroke, not getting the kick and arm motion times correctly. Out of 55 of us at OCS only 4 of us passed the 2nd class test because nobody was doing the breaststroke kick right. I'm sure the instructors will help you get it right before your tested on it. +1 for having the balls to tackle the problem and ask for help. Since your 1 of 2 coasties in the class I'm pretty sure I know who you are and I'll offer some help monday or tuesday if you want it. And yes I passed the 2nd class swim so I got ya covered on the correct form

 

[HeyJoe]

+1 to you both for speaking out and demonstrating true comradeship. Very heartening to see.

 

[phrogdriver]

I am by no means qualified to speak on pool technique, but I really think there is no such thing as a sinker. As someone else mentioned, a lot of people START to sink. If they waited a second, they'd reach neutral bouyancy or better and start to at least hover, but then they exhale or start to get vertical and sink.

The biggest variable in body bouyancy is body fat. Unless you are marathon runner lean, you aren't negatively buoyant. The difference between 10% and 15% isn't going to make one guy float and the other sink.

Stick with it and use the tips above and you'll be fine.

The biggest contributor to success in survival swimming is confidence in the water. Once you panic or start flailing, you're done. Nothing in survival swimming has to be done quickly. As long as you approach everything in a calm and methodical manner, you'll be fine.

I never liked the SWET trainer. At first, I would always be out of the seat in 2 seconds, then barrel through the cage like a bull in a ring. Once I realized that, hey, I can hold my breath for a minute and calmed down, things were much easier.

 

[HeyJoe]

Another thing that popped into my head now I have played back my initial testing and periodic returns (to the somewhat sadistic chamber of devices they have concocted over the years to make it realistic and more meaningful); try to pick your spot for prone float so that you're not near anyone (and even mile swim). The group grope in PCola isn't as bad on refreshers and most everyone just wants to get through it. Regardless, trying to float in your zen jellyfish position with several people flailing nearby can disturb your karma and buoyancy.