In the last decade, never have I ever seen local ladies inside a military drinking establishment. Anytime you see a civilian female in such an establishment, the only logical conclusion is dependapotamus.
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Promotion Rates as a Naval Aviator
- Thread starter papacarter
- Start date
That's too bad. P-cola O'club...used to be the same way when I was in -10/-86. We always included a few Perdido Key ladies in the group....so we didn't have to drive home (or they could drive us to the Bama and walk/stumble home).
ATIS
Add this to my list on the Why I’m Getting Out thread.
Probably why the O-Clubs have gone dodo
I'm fascinated by the mindset that laments DUI enforcement on base. Yes, I know there have been some cases of overzealous MAs pulling people over, but in the grand scheme, those cases have got to be outliers. We'll set those aside for the sake of this discussion.
If you're drinking to the point of not being legal or safe to drive home, you shouldn't be driving home. This was just as true 30 years ago as it is today. This is not some new injustice that Big Navy has recently imposed on Naval Aviation.
As is the case with so many other aspects of Naval Aviation culture and tradition, my presumption is that today's generation of JOs are looking back with vicarious nostalgia on an era they themselves didn't experience, and attributing qualities that do not match the reality at the time. It was NBD to drink and drive in the 1960s. For anyone serving in the last 30, it has never been cool to do so.
When I was a JO 15 years ago, everyone went to the club, got shit-faced, then got themselves safely home. Nothing has fundamentally changed about that. This is not the reason the clubs have died. I would offer that generational differences in how millennials socialize may offer some insights worth exploring.
If you're drinking to the point of not being legal or safe to drive home, you shouldn't be driving home. This was just as true 30 years ago as it is today. This is not some new injustice that Big Navy has recently imposed on Naval Aviation.
As is the case with so many other aspects of Naval Aviation culture and tradition, my presumption is that today's generation of JOs are looking back with vicarious nostalgia on an era they themselves didn't experience, and attributing qualities that do not match the reality at the time. It was NBD to drink and drive in the 1960s. For anyone serving in the last 30, it has never been cool to do so.
When I was a JO 15 years ago, everyone went to the club, got shit-faced, then got themselves safely home. Nothing has fundamentally changed about that. This is not the reason the clubs have died. I would offer that generational differences in how millennials socialize may offer some insights worth exploring.
So, in a sense, I agree with you. People say that (one of the reasons) nobody goes to the club anymore because security is waiting to pounce on you. My contention is that this is not actually why people stopped going to the club.
Agree...SF/security wasn't the detractor, just a factor to account for (which we already had)....it was the change in culture that limited and ultimatly killed participation IMO. I was lucky to go to Japan were we were (CVW) a captive auidance and the Atsugi O'club (when we were there and not U/W)...was still hopping. Don't know if that still holds true for Iwakuni these days.
ATIS...going midnight for a few weeks...see ya on the flip side.
And the JOs you speak of that are complaining about the club are saying the reason they stopped going is because the description ATIS made above no longer applies. JOs condemn drunk driving and do not want to return to a time where that was less of a big deal. They do want to return to a time where the club was as ATIS described: the best party in town. THAT is what JOs are waxing nostalgic about, and that is what they are saying when they say the Navy ain’t what is used to be. We hear stories from seniors that match what ATIS was talking about.
I don't dispute things have changed, but I don't think we fully understand why. The club was pretty rocking when I was a JO. I'm not aware of any policy changes from Big Navy that directly contributed to that change. Maybe people's OPTEMPO has been higher and they just wanted to go home to be with family. Maybe Millennials socialize and party differently than Gen-Xers. Maybe the Navy's emphasis on deglamorizing alcohol has some effect, but I didn't see that where I was in Whidbey.
I'll ask you (and the group) what you think contributed. I will say this - when people say "the Navy ain't what it used to be," they're usually talking about a period that they themselves never experienced first hand - like how it was in the 70s. That's just a strange perspective to hold.
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
I think a lot of it has to do with millennials not wanting to take shots with a guy in a flight suit who looks like James Carville.
Well, there is still the Officers Club in Mayport, FL 
I did a few years in Atsugi (when the airwing was still in town) and the club could get lively. Two quick stories. One night an older dude in civvies was being a belligerent drunk and general douchewad, enough of an ass that a couple guys and I eventually threw him out. Next Monday come to find out he was the base XO, and had figured out who we were and cried to our skipper about it. The CO called us in, asked about it, then backed us and told the guy to fuck off. Kinda restored a little faith in things for me.
Another skipper of ours was not quite the same. He'd announced to the ready room, "I don't require you to come to mando fun - but I know who's there." Turning socializing into a Fitrep 500 schlong-chugging contest on the boss is a great way to kill the fun. When a guy gives you weekly lectures about not drinking too much or doing anything that could put him in the Navy Crimes, sure, you don't wanna have a beer with him.
Can't speak to the misty distant past but I would throw out there that the more corporate the Navy becomes, the more the Navy has to compete with actual corporations for talent. They pay better and they don't have boats. Culture is our best lever for retention, and we don't seem to mind pissing it away.
Differences in socializing such as what?
Do you think JOs not wanting the Oclub to be the best party in town is why the clubs aren't the best party in town, or is the Oclub not the best party in town due to base restrictions and distance from the more populated hotspots in-town? Or another reason altogether?
Good perspective, and Atsugi is certainly a special case. Honest question though - Varying COs temperament notwithstanding, when it comes to tradition in general, who is pissing it away? Is it leadership? Is it the rank and file? Do we really value tradition, or just pay it lip service? I think the Millennial generation brings some influence to this issue as well. If there's one attribute that most people identify with Millennials, it would be that they don't value traditional ways of doing things in the workplace. Food for thought.