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Promotion in the IRR
- Thread starter subreservist
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The Navy isn't going after folks who do other stuff in lieu of AT, they are trying to crack down on folks who don't do AT or anything else other than a minimum number of drills to get a good year.
atmahan
... facility for offence.
Flash (or anyone else),
I'm not trying to be argumentive or play devil's advocate but I heard this same "crack down" years ago.
The part I never understood about the intent of the crack down was in how the Points are added up.
What I mean by this is:
IMO, the minimum for a SELRES participation should be:
Attend all 12 Drill Weekends and perform a 12-day AT.
This would give the Reservist 60 points for his/her Anniversary Year (48 Inactive Points from the Drills plus 12 Active Duty pointsfrom the AT).
Let's say that this is the Standard that they are expecting.
But is it the 60 Points or simply the AT performance part?
Because . . .
Some units have Additional Drill Points (ATPs), in some cases up to 30 ATPs. What if the 12 Drill Weekends are performed and instead of a 12-Day AT, 10-15 Inactive Days (20-30 ATPs) are performed instead. This adds up to 58-78 Points. An AT waiver is still required for this but the support to the gaining command was the same. There is also IDTT and RMP, and let's not forget the correspondence, Blue/Gold, and Funeral Points.
Is the minimum lower than 60 Points?
Is it a SELRES that only attends 9 Drill Weekends and does not do AT? This would get the SELRES 36 points but still earn him/her a "Good" Year.
Or is it a SELRES that performs 12 Drill Weekends only and no AT (48 Points total).
Then there the ones that perform only 1 Drill per Quarter (16 Points total) but can rack rack up, say, another 30 Active Duty Points doing AT/ADT at the gaining command (which makes up their Reskeds). Sure, they did Active Duty but they only racked up 46 Points total, less than the guy who did 12 Drill Weekends but no AT.
See what I mean?
The possible combinations of both Inactive and Active Points is endless (but they can only add up to 365). If a certain Point threshold is required, it can be most likely be reached by Inactive Points only and many times fully supporting the gaining command.
Will our beloved organization take all these nuanced scenarios into consideration?
Just my 2 cents worth.
I'm not trying to be argumentive or play devil's advocate but I heard this same "crack down" years ago.
The part I never understood about the intent of the crack down was in how the Points are added up.
What I mean by this is:
IMO, the minimum for a SELRES participation should be:
Attend all 12 Drill Weekends and perform a 12-day AT.
This would give the Reservist 60 points for his/her Anniversary Year (48 Inactive Points from the Drills plus 12 Active Duty pointsfrom the AT).
Let's say that this is the Standard that they are expecting.
But is it the 60 Points or simply the AT performance part?
Because . . .
Some units have Additional Drill Points (ATPs), in some cases up to 30 ATPs. What if the 12 Drill Weekends are performed and instead of a 12-Day AT, 10-15 Inactive Days (20-30 ATPs) are performed instead. This adds up to 58-78 Points. An AT waiver is still required for this but the support to the gaining command was the same. There is also IDTT and RMP, and let's not forget the correspondence, Blue/Gold, and Funeral Points.
Is the minimum lower than 60 Points?
Is it a SELRES that only attends 9 Drill Weekends and does not do AT? This would get the SELRES 36 points but still earn him/her a "Good" Year.
Or is it a SELRES that performs 12 Drill Weekends only and no AT (48 Points total).
Then there the ones that perform only 1 Drill per Quarter (16 Points total) but can rack rack up, say, another 30 Active Duty Points doing AT/ADT at the gaining command (which makes up their Reskeds). Sure, they did Active Duty but they only racked up 46 Points total, less than the guy who did 12 Drill Weekends but no AT.
See what I mean?
The possible combinations of both Inactive and Active Points is endless (but they can only add up to 365). If a certain Point threshold is required, it can be most likely be reached by Inactive Points only and many times fully supporting the gaining command.
Will our beloved organization take all these nuanced scenarios into consideration?
Just my 2 cents worth.
I think you are reading way too much into it and I can't even to begin to address even a few of your scenarios, but the reserve leadership is trying to go after no-loads and not folks who fulfill their commitments faithfully. Are there exceptions where some people slime their way through? Yes. Are there some instances of good folks getting caught up by bad policies? Probably. But there are a lot of layers that folks have to go through to get kicked out and plenty of reasonable people usually somewhere in that process so those cases are minimized. Are there folks skating through the reserves doing the minimum? Sure, and they should be doing more to get rid of them. Do I think this is a reasonable policy that will do a little to help with that problem? Yes.
subreservist
Well-Known Member
Too many scenarios Atmahan! It's really all about enforcement of policy at the unit level, because it takes too long for it to get caught at the NOSC level. Not only is there an AT policy, but you are also supposed to perform 40 of 48 DWE. All the other stuff you mention (ATP, RMP, courses) are just more icing on the cake, not to be done in lieu of the DWE's.
I'm actually surprised some folks are AT adverse, cuz I got 3 really cool trips to Italy (including a detour to Rome) doing mine. I was trying to set up another heading to London that didn't pan out...lol!
But I think that's why they decided to capture the verbage in the latest instruction to say both 50 points AND performing AT...but with 40 of required 48 plus 12 AT plus 15 gratuity points for being SELRES = 67-75 points as the norm.
Now a scenario that I would find of interest: What if the reservist had his 12 day AT scheduled for 4th quarter of the fiscal year. He gets on station(or finds out a week or 2 sooner) and it turns out his services are only required for 7-8 days and has to modify his orders to reflect the new requirement. Does he still get dinged? Made an attempt to do 12 but forces outside his control reduced it. It's 4th qtr...does he have to scramble to find something else (knowing monies are spent and it's unlikely to find) or do we just call it good as he made an honest effort of meeting the intent?
I'm actually surprised some folks are AT adverse, cuz I got 3 really cool trips to Italy (including a detour to Rome) doing mine. I was trying to set up another heading to London that didn't pan out...lol!
But I think that's why they decided to capture the verbage in the latest instruction to say both 50 points AND performing AT...but with 40 of required 48 plus 12 AT plus 15 gratuity points for being SELRES = 67-75 points as the norm.
Now a scenario that I would find of interest: What if the reservist had his 12 day AT scheduled for 4th quarter of the fiscal year. He gets on station(or finds out a week or 2 sooner) and it turns out his services are only required for 7-8 days and has to modify his orders to reflect the new requirement. Does he still get dinged? Made an attempt to do 12 but forces outside his control reduced it. It's 4th qtr...does he have to scramble to find something else (knowing monies are spent and it's unlikely to find) or do we just call it good as he made an honest effort of meeting the intent?
As subreservist said, the minimum is actually 50 (35+15). But to answer your question about "how" the points get spent, it gets handled locally at the unit. Even before this AT crackdown, funding would come available in tiers. AT has long been pushed as the first source of funding (besides regular IDTs) followed by additionals. This just kind of worked because units would get a lower level of funding for additionals at the beginning of the FY, then the funding would increase, allowing for more usage after (presumably) someone has done their AT.
But the actual enforcement of polices (again, as subreservists stated) is done at the unit level and is a tool to cull the herd of no loads. Really the only other practical way to get rid of someone is to rack up 9 UAs for them and then start the processing. And even then, an already long process can be hampered by the NOSC dropping the ball (losing or not filing the paperwork) and then you have to start all over.
atmahan
... facility for offence.
The 9 UAs was the most effective way people were being culled almost 10 years ago now that I remember. There was no way getting around the fact that one did not Drill, or scheduled Re-Skeds to make them up, and it was basically the only method we had to dump the no loads. The no AT method was harder to justify if one was actually getting more than 41 Points (which is what one would get if they missed 9 Drill Periods and performed no AT). That is all that I am saying.
In terms of paperwork, back then, because a lot of the money was going to activities overseas (a-hem) , the NOSC had the mandate/incentive to not lose the paperwork once submitted by the Unit since pay billets were at a premium.
Another method that the was tried back then was identifying the High-Year Tenures (HYTs), but then they raised the limits!
In terms of paperwork, back then, because a lot of the money was going to activities overseas (a-hem) , the NOSC had the mandate/incentive to not lose the paperwork once submitted by the Unit since pay billets were at a premium.
Another method that the was tried back then was identifying the High-Year Tenures (HYTs), but then they raised the limits!
I know this is an old thread but ...
I found out this week that my request for Continuation was denied. So next November I'll be discharged with (at that time) 16 good years. I'm checking to see if there's anything I can do to be reconsidered.
I found out this week that my request for Continuation was denied. So next November I'll be discharged with (at that time) 16 good years. I'm checking to see if there's anything I can do to be reconsidered.
m5h9
Member
Thanks for letting us know. I was wondering if there was any action after the initial letter. Did you get a letter to apply for continuation or how did that process work? I'd be interested to know if you can navigate this, and it seems that manning is increasing in other navy communities. Would you go Guard to make up your final years?
Thanks
You're IRR, right?
In November, I got a short letter from the Navy that said something along the lines of "hey, it is time to apply for continuation. If you want to stick around, check this block and mail the form back to us." It was really that simply.
If anything comes of this process, I'll let you all know.
I'd not considered the Guard. That's a really good idea. Going to have to research that route.
Correct. I thought I was sunk back in October with the changes to MILPERS 1001-145 and 1001-125. However, PERS made an exception for IRR officers in the Naval Academy Blue and Gold Officer program.
m5h9
Member
Any bad years?
Yes. I'd be able to get 20 qualifying years before reaching 24 years of Commissioned Service.
subreservist
Well-Known Member
Duncan, I'm assuming you're O4? Are you 1315/1325 designator?
I did a continuation letter several years ago and although they didn't require or ask for one, I submitted a short (beg for consideration) letter with the letter they sent. I'll never know if it made a difference, but it did get approved.
I did a continuation letter several years ago and although they didn't require or ask for one, I submitted a short (beg for consideration) letter with the letter they sent. I'll never know if it made a difference, but it did get approved.
We've had a few guys in my unit get extensions and a requst for extension now requires a CO endorsement, a letter explaining your recent participation in the reserves and that you currently be 'Fully Medically Ready'. If those weren't included in your request I'm not surprised you didn't get one.