Primary out West?

[scubasteve38]

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but a friend and I were talking a couple days ago, and were wondering if the Navy would ever move Primary training out west to like the California desert, Nevada, Arizona etc. We figured while the heat may suck, that at least out there you wouldn't have to deal with hurricanes, and the weather for the most part is pretty good throughout most of the year. Just wondering what everybody else thinks and whether or not that would be a good idea.

 

[e6bflyer]

It's a great idea. Unfortunately they have already gone "all in" on their current training bases and won't be moving them anytime in the near or distant future due to political and fiscal reasons. There are also other things to consider such as state environmental regulations, the cost to close old bases, cost of living, etc.

If only we had a thread for really stupid questions...

 

[wlawr005]

Not to mention the amount of civilian support at training bases makes this virtually impossible. Towns like Whiting and Meridian would suffer some serious economic hardship if you had to fire/relocate every maintainer, secretary, clerk, and support person.

 

[e6bflyer]

Those bases used to be located in the "Pensacola training complex" which allowed students to move from platform to platform all the way through CQ and weapons training without undue delay and cost due to PCS moving. The modern day training pipeline is way different and there are lost training days due to the sometimes less than stellar weather that they get there, but the infrastructure, personnel, and institutional inertia already exists. It won't move in our lifetimes. Shit, they put F-35 training down there too!

 

[Yardstick]

Corpus does the occasional det out to New Mexico. While it's not a permanent move, I spent the better part of a month out at Las Cruces. Flew pretty much every day and made some nice per diem. It was a good time. I think they went to Roswell this year, I could be wrong though. You're right about the weather though. In the month or so I was out there, I don't think I weather cancelled once, and as a result, I flew through the syllabus.That would not have happened in Corpus at the same time of year.

 

[scubasteve38]

I'm only talking about Primary, not advanced training. I would keep the HTs at Whiting, and not closing Meridian or Kingsville, or Corpus.

 

[wlawr005]

So basically you think we should just up and move Whiting and Pensacola to...where? You're talking about displacing thousands of civilian workers, renegotiating new letters of agreement with several ATC facilities, building new facilities, establishing new lines of accounting and supply, and overall spending a ton of money to do what? Save a few SNA's a couple of months in Primary?

I don't think it's gonna happen.

 

[RiseR 25]

So basically you think we should just up and move Whiting and Pensacola to...where? You're talking about displacing thousands of civilian workers, renegotiating new letters of agreement with several ATC facilities, building new facilities, establishing new lines of accounting and supply, and overall spending a ton of money to do what? Save a few SNA's a couple of months in Primary?

I don't think it's gonna happen.

I'm from Nevada, so I think that all SNA's should move out here because it makes MY life easier. I keed I keed...

 

[RiseR 25]

One thing you have to watch out for is density altitude. It is TERRIBLE to try and land at some of these runways in the summer months. I think overall where they have it now is best for a learning environment. You don't want to throw in mountain flying until you have a good handle on the aircraft.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Yeah, not gonna happen. I guess it would probably be cool, but then again, I don't think it really matters that much. I appreciated getting a chance to live in the south, even if it wasn't my favorite place ever, and my time to train wasn't outrageous. I probably got weather cancelled in Meridian a little more than anywhere else I have been, but the biggest limiting factor there was just checking into different commands, and waiting to class up. Of course moving factors into this, but my move from Corpus to Meridian took a day and I still sat for a couple months before starting. My move to Miramar from Meridian took like 3 days. Sat around for about 6 months before starting there. I really don't think the PCS part is that much of a player. If they want to reduce time to train, they should not overcrowd the training pipeline. Something tells me that this isn't that much of a problem though, or they would have already addressed the issue in other ways.

 

[MIDNJAC]

One thing you have to watch out for is density altitude. It is TERRIBLE to try and land at some of these runways in the summer months. I think overall where they have it now is best for a learning environment. You don't want to throw in mountain flying until you have a good handle on the aircraft.

Meh, I don't see that as a big deal. It is something that needs to be considered, but a lot of Naval Aviation is "mountain flying".....Fallon, overseas, Socal, etc. You could stop a T-34 in about 7 ft with beta. I've never heard of anyone having trouble landing on a short runway in one. I guess the T-45 might have more of an issue, but even that took off and stopped in short distances. Civilian pilots make a big deal out of mountain flying, and rightly so when you are talking about light civil aircraft, but most of our aircraft have somewhat different considerations.

 

[RiseR 25]

Thanks, sorry I was assuming that primary trainer aircraft performed like some civilian, incorrect assumption.

 

[e6bflyer]

Meh, I don't see that as a big deal. It is something that needs to be considered, but a lot of Naval Aviation is "mountain flying".....Fallon, overseas, Socal, etc. You could stop a T-34 in about 7 ft with beta. I've never heard of anyone having trouble landing on a short runway in one. I guess the T-45 might have more of an issue, but even that took off and stopped in short distances. Civilian pilots make a big deal out of mountain flying, and rightly so when you are talking about light civil aircraft, but most of our aircraft have somewhat different considerations.

Yeah, I don't think any of the primary trainers would have a thing to worry about. I think helos would be most affected by the big change in DA. There is the extra concern about obstacle clearance also flying around the mountains. Probably not an issue with F/A aircraft, but a real concern in heavier multi engine planes.

As mentioned above, Corpus did a det to Roswell this year (I know because my buddy took an E-6 there and ended up in the pattern with a bunch of T-34 solos), and they go to las cruces quite a bit. They are both fairly high altitude.

 

[scubasteve38]

So basically you think we should just up and move Whiting and Pensacola to...where? You're talking about displacing thousands of civilian workers, renegotiating new letters of agreement with several ATC facilities, building new facilities, establishing new lines of accounting and supply, and overall spending a ton of money to do what? Save a few SNA's a couple of months in Primary?

I don't think it's gonna happen.

Well what Yardstick was saying how Corpus does an occasional detachment out to New Mexico. If Corpus keeps doing it and it's working maybe the Navy would consider it. Obviously if they ever did decide to go out west it would be gradual maybe move one squadron out there and eventually move the others. I'm not talking about just up and move everybody at once.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Yeah I can imagine it would be an issue in the E-6 or maybe even P-3. It could also be an issue for a Hornet on a highspeed abort on takeoff, or maybe landing with a lot of gas, but we also have long field gear to help out with that. Obviously about one bazillion flights have been flown out of Fallon on hot summer days in high performance jets, so it doesn't seem to statistically be a huge problem for the community.