Primary EPs

[rdraider04]

Hey everyone, I'm starting SNA primary soon as a retread and I'm wondering if Notes, Warnings and Cautions are required to be memorized these days. I know they weren't in the T-6 when I went through the NFO syllabus a few years back but I have heard they are required now for the T-34. Thanks.

 

[NozeMan]

If other items in the EP are memory, then I'd plan on memorizing the notes/warnings/cautions for the procedure. Just save yourself the trouble and learn the whole procedure early.

 

[DocT]

^Roger^ A *good* student will know the notes warnings and cautions.

 

[Gatordev]

Hey everyone, I'm starting SNA primary soon as a retread and I'm wondering if Notes, Warnings and Cautions are required to be memorized these days. I know they weren't in the T-6 when I went through the NFO syllabus a few years back but I have heard they are required now for the T-34. Thanks.

The simple answer is yes, but what Nozeman said is also true. They don't have to be verbatim, but the highlights need to be hit. I've flown w/ some studs who told me that their onwings have them memorize non-memory EPs, as well, which I don't agree with, but whatever. The few I have seen do this tended to be P-3 guys. Not meant as a dig, just what I saw.

 

[navywareagle]

at first, for the cpts and fams, just focus on memorizing the ep's verbatim and know the highlights of the notes, warnings, and cautions. once you have them down, focus on verbatim notes, warnings, and cautions. i almost failed a c4100 block flight because i couldn't recite the verbatim notes, warnings, and cautions while flying the plane.

 

[NavAir42]

The simple answer is yes, but what Nozeman said is also true. They don't have to be verbatim, but the highlights need to be hit. I've flown w/ some studs who told me that their onwings have them memorize non-memory EPs, as well, which I don't agree with, but whatever. The few I have seen do this tended to be P-3 guys. Not meant as a dig, just what I saw.

Sadly yes, it is an unfortunate trait for the P-3 world that non-memory item EPs are expected to be memory.

In the case of the T-34 and/or T-6 the rule my on wing (a P-3 guy from my current squadron) went by the rule that if the EP was a memory item you had to be able to paraphrase what the note/caution/warning said while flying.

In primary the toughest briefs I had were with the Marine IPs. P-3 guys have a rep for being a-holes when it comes to EPs. Your mileage may vary. Mine did.

 

[SDNalgene]

In the case of the T-34 and/or T-6 the rule my on wing (a P-3 guy from my current squadron) went by the rule that if the EP was a memory item you had to be able to paraphrase what the note/caution/warning said while flying.

Some of the instructors could give you a better gauge on the how pervasive this is, but requirement or not, my grades on HAPLs or LAPLs were ALWAYS better when I recited the applicable emergency procedures quickly, calmly, and with the notes, warnings, and cautions included. It seemed like displaying the knowledge would buy you into the good graces of the IP and you were less likely to get dinged for the little stuff. Just my experience. If you know your EP's well enough to do that then it's also just one less thing to worry about in the brief.

 

[SQUIDutah]

Did that power point I sent you help?

 

[Gatordev]

Some of the instructors could give you a better gauge on the how pervasive this is, but requirement or not, my grades on HAPLs or LAPLs were ALWAYS better when I recited the applicable emergency procedures quickly, calmly, and with the notes, warnings, and cautions included. It seemed like displaying the knowledge would buy you into the good graces of the IP and you were less likely to get dinged for the little stuff. Just my experience. If you know your EP's well enough to do that then it's also just one less thing to worry about in the brief.

In my experience, the average student wasn't really able to do this until maybe FAM 12 or PAs, and by PAs, HAPL/LAPL training was pretty rare. If you're able to do this in the air and still physically fly the aircraft to hit the checkpoints needed (which doesn't have to be all of them), then you're ahead of the game...at least for HAPL/LAPLs.

I would want to hear the Notes/Warnings/Cautions on the ground (paraphrased was fine), but if they didn't get spit out right away in the air but all the steps were covered and checkpoints hit, I was happy. I might ask about a Warning when time permitted (in the glide, landing site already picked, etc), but usually the time was spent trying to see a) where junior was taking me (and did I really want to go there) and b) what his/her plan was.

 

[bunk22]

I like to hear at least the warnings and cautions, paraphrased. Can't go wrong by knowing them.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Can't go wrong by knowing them.

And it can save your ass if you do. Perfect example - on the CH-46E Engine Fire procedure there's a warning about the fire extinguishing system. That warning is that what's used to extinguish the fire (and no one memorizes what the chemical is), can essentially suck the air out of your lungs if you're too close. If you don't pay attention to that, and your crew chief is trying to fight the fire - you could easily kill him.

Did anyone else notice that "Nicole" aka Super Hornets Wife posted that question? Mil-to-mil and co-location strike again!

 

[Gatordev]

That warning is that what's used to extinguish the fire (and no one memorizes what the chemical is)...

Bromotrifluoromethane. I don't think it's in the -60B Natops anymore, but I always remembered (most of) the name from when I was in the RAG. Also known as Halon.

 

[NavAir42]

Bromotrifluoromethane. I don't think it's in the -60B Natops anymore, but I always remembered (most of) the name from when I was in the RAG. Also known as Halon.

I think that's one of the P-3 worlds favorite words.

 

[zippy]

I think that's one of the P-3 worlds favorite words.

Indeed it is...

 

[H20man]

A slight threadjack on Halon.

In all of my firefighting classes I have never heard of Halon sucking the air out of someone's lungs.

The only ding Halon gets against it is that it becomes Toxic at a certain temperature. When released onto a fire it will break the chain reaction, but it does not have a cooling effect so the heat remains causing it to become toxic.

You can be in a sealed space with Halon released into it and still be fine, I just wouldn't recomend sticking around for long.

One of our instructors at school had this happen to him, walked out fine. Swears by the stuff.

Oh yeah, and hippies hate Halon because it hurts the environment.