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- Thread starter cnata001
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American_Ace
AFROTC
Sorry you guys didn't get in. It's weird that we are all in the same boat; fully qualified, nominations, but we didn't quite make it. Good luck next year, I'm sure you guys will get in.
Thanks. Only what, 2500 get this far? 25% of the spots go to primary nominations (fact), 25% go to recruited athletes or females (guess), 25% to minorities (fact). Though it looks like the chances are 1 in 2 that we would get in (given that about 1400 are admitted, it would make sense to assume so), it is probably much more accurate to say that 1400 people (1400x .75 subtracted from 2500) compete for 300 spots (.25 x 1400), or 1 in 5 are admitted. :/
1 in 5! Even after 13,000 other applicants are eliminated!
(If you don't have 20/20 vision, and the 75% with near-guaranteed admissions already filled up the allowed 15 or 25% maximum slots for four eyes, then you have a 0 in 5 chance
Of course, to fill up all four eyes spots, 1 in 3 of primary admissions, minorities, and athletes must have glasses, which is unlikely--thus there IS some hope for non-primary nominated, non-recruited, non-female, non-minority four eyes, though less)
1 in 5! Even after 13,000 other applicants are eliminated!
(If you don't have 20/20 vision, and the 75% with near-guaranteed admissions already filled up the allowed 15 or 25% maximum slots for four eyes, then you have a 0 in 5 chance
Of course, to fill up all four eyes spots, 1 in 3 of primary admissions, minorities, and athletes must have glasses, which is unlikely--thus there IS some hope for non-primary nominated, non-recruited, non-female, non-minority four eyes, though less)Integer said:Thanks. Only what, 2500 get this far? 25% of the spots go to primary nominations (fact), 25% go to recruited athletes or females (guess), 25% to minorities (fact). Though it looks like the chances are 1 in 2 that we would get in (given that about 1400 are admitted, it would make sense to assume so), it is probably much more accurate to say that 1400 people (1400x .75 subtracted from 2500) compete for 300 spots (.25 x 1400), or 1 in 5 are admitted. :/
1 in 5! Even after 13,000 other applicants are eliminated!
(If you don't have 20/20 vision, and the 75% with near-guaranteed admissions already filled up the allowed 15 or 25% maximum slots for four eyes, then you have a 0 in 5 chance
I forwarded some of your comments to some admissions officers here, and they got a big laugh out of it.
The 25% going to recruited athletes or females is widely inaccurate. The Academy does keep about a 15% female ratio, but that is where the quota ends. There are no "set" number reserved for athletes.
The 25% going to minorities is inaccurate as well. There are no "quotas" for minorities. It just so happens that about 25% of the admitted people are minorities, just like at ANY OTHER UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY. The University of Michigan and one or two others are the ONLY colleges that practice any form of affirmative action. The Academies are not included.
The 25% going to PRIMARY NOMINATIONS is an outright lie. Less than 1% of all US congressmen use the PRIMARY-ALTERNATE method of nomination. The overwhelming majority uses the COMPETITIVE METHOD, in which they provide a list of 10 nominees to the Academy, and the Academy CHOOSES from that 10. It is extremely common for more than ONE candidate from ONE list of 10 nominees to be offered an appointment, because IF USNA WANTS YOU, THEY WILL FIND YOU A NOMINATION.
The whole "VISION" thing you brought up is akin to a conspiracy theory. It is JUST NOT TRUE. In a previous post you argued that the Academy requires 25% of each class to become Naval Aviators.
1) First, this is not true. The Academy does want to produce its fair share of aviators, but there is ABSOLUTELY no quota.
2) There are MORE THAN ENOUGH qualified USNA mids who want to go aviation, and not enough slots to go around.
3) Over the past couple of years, nearly A THOUSAND USNA mids have undergone the PRK procedure at the Academy and subsequently have become qualified to go aviation. Thus, the competition for aviation is FIERCE.
4) Admissions gives ZERO points to candidates with 20/20 vision, and subtracts ZERO points from candidates without 20/20. Eyesight is not an issue, so long as the candidate is medically qualified.
If you didn't get the point, USNA has absolutely no problem finding people to become pilots. Even if 100% of each class came in with glasses, they would simply be PRK'd and would be qualified to fly anyways. Your quota theory, while interesting, is absolutely unfounded in reality.
So here is WHAT REALLY HAPPENS:
-About 50,000 start the application process by requesting more information
-About 15,000 actual candidate files are created
-About 5,000 are nominated
-About 3,000 are medically and physically qualified
-About 1,300-1,400 appointments are given out
-About 1,200 new midshipmen matriculate
Out of that 1,200:
-15%, or about 170 MUST BE female
-About 250 come from Prep Schools
-Only about a dozen are "recruited" athletes. You are forgetting a big fact that USNA isn't a big NCAA DIV 1 student factory. They don't go around recruiting women for volleyball and men for the golf team. Football is the only sport that "recruits" at the Academies, and even those recruit on a very limited basis. Above all, the Academies want people committed to becoming officers, not football players.
And THAT is the nature of the "quota" system. What does this mean? If you are a male, then there are about 780 slots that you are competing for annually.
Integer: If you have any further questions, instead of speculating and giving out false information about the Academy, why don't you give your admissions rep at USNA a call, and let him know about your theories.
According to the USNA, about 25% of the people are nominated under primary nominations. Also, a USNA admissions officer told me that by law, no more than 15 or 25 percent of the class can wear glasses. He also said that other academies do not care about vision as much.
DO NOT LISTEN TO HERLURP. You have to realize that you are not competing for 800 spots, but are competing for 300. Even better, you are competing for 2 spots. Think of it like that. What is my point? I low-balled the number of spots TO MOTIVATE MYSELF AND EVERYBODY ELSE TO WORK OUR ASSES OFF. The actual statistics don't matter.
I don't actually believe anything I said. However, realizing that even after 13,000 are eliminated, that the chances of being accepted (AT RANDOM) are 1 in 2 up to 1 in 5 gives me awesome motivation to do even better. I apologize about making an appointment sound impossible: obviously, someone like Herlurp says he got in, so that gives me hope.
But, for me personally, if USNA admitted every non-cheater, non-liar, and non-thief they saw, then I would get in automatically. However, telling myself that there might only be ONE SPOT OPEN for 2,000 people is the best motivation.
Also, you are scum.
Finally, I think we are in two different worlds. You, Herlup, are here to try show how smart you are about the admissions process (don't be offended.) On the other hand, I am here to seek and gain and offer motivation. When I make the USNA seem like the greatest competition in the world, I do it to motivate my peers and myself, not to be an exact statistician. (Even though the numbers I gave are all from admissions officers... You don't understand that in the real world, there is not ONE correct answer. High school teaches you that if a reputable source tells you you one thing, then that is the answer. But what if another reputable source tells me something completely different? It's not like math where if a teacher tells you the right answer, and a student has another solution, then you of course go with the teacher's solution if you had to pick which one is probably the right one. In the real world, you have to understand that if I say something, you don't yell at me for knowing something that doesn't match what you said. For example, when you quoted your statistics just now, even though common sense says you made some up and some others cannot be true, I considered the ones that could be true and I gave you the benefit of the doubt. If we are told two separate things by admissions officers, don't yell at me for it over the Internet. I know it takes actual sense to figure this out. Also, you have the attitude of you-are-going-to-the-usna-so-you-are-better-than-me-because-I-am-not. What a small world you live in
Grammar mistakes and spelling mistakes left in on purpose.
DO NOT LISTEN TO HERLURP. You have to realize that you are not competing for 800 spots, but are competing for 300. Even better, you are competing for 2 spots. Think of it like that. What is my point? I low-balled the number of spots TO MOTIVATE MYSELF AND EVERYBODY ELSE TO WORK OUR ASSES OFF. The actual statistics don't matter.
I don't actually believe anything I said. However, realizing that even after 13,000 are eliminated, that the chances of being accepted (AT RANDOM) are 1 in 2 up to 1 in 5 gives me awesome motivation to do even better. I apologize about making an appointment sound impossible: obviously, someone like Herlurp says he got in, so that gives me hope.
But, for me personally, if USNA admitted every non-cheater, non-liar, and non-thief they saw, then I would get in automatically. However, telling myself that there might only be ONE SPOT OPEN for 2,000 people is the best motivation.Also, you are scum.
Finally, I think we are in two different worlds. You, Herlup, are here to try show how smart you are about the admissions process (don't be offended.) On the other hand, I am here to seek and gain and offer motivation. When I make the USNA seem like the greatest competition in the world, I do it to motivate my peers and myself, not to be an exact statistician. (Even though the numbers I gave are all from admissions officers... You don't understand that in the real world, there is not ONE correct answer. High school teaches you that if a reputable source tells you you one thing, then that is the answer. But what if another reputable source tells me something completely different? It's not like math where if a teacher tells you the right answer, and a student has another solution, then you of course go with the teacher's solution if you had to pick which one is probably the right one. In the real world, you have to understand that if I say something, you don't yell at me for knowing something that doesn't match what you said. For example, when you quoted your statistics just now, even though common sense says you made some up and some others cannot be true, I considered the ones that could be true and I gave you the benefit of the doubt. If we are told two separate things by admissions officers, don't yell at me for it over the Internet. I know it takes actual sense to figure this out. Also, you have the attitude of you-are-going-to-the-usna-so-you-are-better-than-me-because-I-am-not. What a small world you live in
Grammar mistakes and spelling mistakes left in on purpose.
Don't try to twist this into a matter of motivation and I certainly wasn't yelling at you. What you did was post a bunch of numbers and figures and passed them off as fact. You neither mentioned nor hinted that you were exaggerating your figures, so people would have rightly assumed you were telling the truth, with no intent to decieve.
You are forgetting that people don't necessarily come to these forums to be "motivated." I have recieved several PMs from wannabes who asked me for advice (I have yet to respond and for that I apologize) and what that shows me is that what wannabes here need is ACCURATE INFORMATION, so they can plan accordingly. They don't need someone telling them that they are competing for 200 slots. I don't care if you are motivated by telling yourself that, but it is wrong for you to assume others think the same way as you do.
Furthermore, by giving out inaccurate admissions information, you are CONTRADICTING the efforts of the very admissions team that is trying to HELP YOU get into the Academy. By claiming that white men who are not recruited athletes, who wear glasses, have little or no chance of getting into the Academy no matter how qualified they are, then you are HURTING the efforts of Admissions to attract candidates. Fewer candidates will apply if they believe that they, as white males, have no chance of getting in no matter how qualified they are. This is NOT something Admissions would be pleased to hear about. I guarantee you if I ever found out your name and were to forward your posts to USNA Admissions, it would be detrimental to your applicant file.
Now answer me this:
You say you have spoken to several admissions officers. This does not make sense to me, because each candidate only deals with ONE admissions officer. The other representatives you speak to are NOT admissions officers, but rather liason officers.
What I have on the otherhand, is easy access to the admissions building here at Annapolis. I have a good relationship with the admissions team that got me here in the first place, and all I need to do is take a short walk to see how things are going in the admissions department.
Finally,
You can't use the "holier than thou" card against everything I say, at least not in this case.
The simple fact of the matter is, I am busy as all hell and I don't have the time to pretty up my posts to make them all touchy-feely to please everyone. I post the most accurate information I am able to provide, with little regard for your feelings. Take that as a double-edged sword.
You are forgetting that people don't necessarily come to these forums to be "motivated." I have recieved several PMs from wannabes who asked me for advice (I have yet to respond and for that I apologize) and what that shows me is that what wannabes here need is ACCURATE INFORMATION, so they can plan accordingly. They don't need someone telling them that they are competing for 200 slots. I don't care if you are motivated by telling yourself that, but it is wrong for you to assume others think the same way as you do.
Furthermore, by giving out inaccurate admissions information, you are CONTRADICTING the efforts of the very admissions team that is trying to HELP YOU get into the Academy. By claiming that white men who are not recruited athletes, who wear glasses, have little or no chance of getting into the Academy no matter how qualified they are, then you are HURTING the efforts of Admissions to attract candidates. Fewer candidates will apply if they believe that they, as white males, have no chance of getting in no matter how qualified they are. This is NOT something Admissions would be pleased to hear about. I guarantee you if I ever found out your name and were to forward your posts to USNA Admissions, it would be detrimental to your applicant file.
Now answer me this:
You say you have spoken to several admissions officers. This does not make sense to me, because each candidate only deals with ONE admissions officer. The other representatives you speak to are NOT admissions officers, but rather liason officers.
What I have on the otherhand, is easy access to the admissions building here at Annapolis. I have a good relationship with the admissions team that got me here in the first place, and all I need to do is take a short walk to see how things are going in the admissions department.
Finally,
You can't use the "holier than thou" card against everything I say, at least not in this case.
The simple fact of the matter is, I am busy as all hell and I don't have the time to pretty up my posts to make them all touchy-feely to please everyone. I post the most accurate information I am able to provide, with little regard for your feelings. Take that as a double-edged sword.
Usna
As I said, the only thing I estimated was the # of recruited athletes (by which I didn't just mean athletes recruited directly, I also meant candidates who did really well on the PAE, as I said in the PM.) And if I can't believe an admissions officer standing next to me in Leahy Hall, telling me that there is about a 15-25% max. cap on people wearing glasses, who am I supposed to believe? Period.
Just like you are pressed for time, so am I. You cannot expect me to write detailed explanations. My original reply was short and sweet, saying, correctly, that at random, your chances are worse than they seem to be, and we need to step it up A LOT. The guy I replied to is applying for his third time, so I am sure he knows that USNA will nominate more than one name per congressman, even if your next-door-neighbor already has a primary nomination. I'm sure he also knows that you can get PRK and become eligible to be a pilot while in the USNA. How? All of that information and a lot more other stuff is ALREADY in these forums answered by half a dozen of other current and former Midshipmen, in articles, and in every piece of literature I've seen about the Academy. I cannot be expected to repeat everything that has already been stated in the forums every time I post. I guess this discussion has been worth the time because it has brought out a lot of good points for BRAND NEW candidates to learn about. However, these people should really read all of the forums before PMing you questions that are already answered. They don't represent me or Ace or the other wannabes who HAVE read the forum and HAVE researched the college, so don't dismiss our information as utter nonsense since we did do research before 'spewing' it. When I say 25% is a fact, I mean 25% is a fact. When you say 1% then 5% about the same topic in two different threads, obviously you are the one guessing, not me. I know my facts are right and I was sharing them with the board. I appreciate that you have different beliefs, some of which are clearly based on assumptions. I can't blame you since hearsay goes that primary nominations are near-unexistant.
The only reason I am replying like this is because you have attacked my personal character. Other than that, I think the discussion this has brought out is great, and I value that you have a difference of opinion and this society that makes this possible.
Good luck to you in Plebe Summer!
As I said, the only thing I estimated was the # of recruited athletes (by which I didn't just mean athletes recruited directly, I also meant candidates who did really well on the PAE, as I said in the PM.) And if I can't believe an admissions officer standing next to me in Leahy Hall, telling me that there is about a 15-25% max. cap on people wearing glasses, who am I supposed to believe? Period.
Just like you are pressed for time, so am I. You cannot expect me to write detailed explanations. My original reply was short and sweet, saying, correctly, that at random, your chances are worse than they seem to be, and we need to step it up A LOT. The guy I replied to is applying for his third time, so I am sure he knows that USNA will nominate more than one name per congressman, even if your next-door-neighbor already has a primary nomination. I'm sure he also knows that you can get PRK and become eligible to be a pilot while in the USNA. How? All of that information and a lot more other stuff is ALREADY in these forums answered by half a dozen of other current and former Midshipmen, in articles, and in every piece of literature I've seen about the Academy. I cannot be expected to repeat everything that has already been stated in the forums every time I post. I guess this discussion has been worth the time because it has brought out a lot of good points for BRAND NEW candidates to learn about. However, these people should really read all of the forums before PMing you questions that are already answered. They don't represent me or Ace or the other wannabes who HAVE read the forum and HAVE researched the college, so don't dismiss our information as utter nonsense since we did do research before 'spewing' it. When I say 25% is a fact, I mean 25% is a fact. When you say 1% then 5% about the same topic in two different threads, obviously you are the one guessing, not me. I know my facts are right and I was sharing them with the board. I appreciate that you have different beliefs, some of which are clearly based on assumptions. I can't blame you since hearsay goes that primary nominations are near-unexistant.
The only reason I am replying like this is because you have attacked my personal character. Other than that, I think the discussion this has brought out is great, and I value that you have a difference of opinion and this society that makes this possible.
Good luck to you in Plebe Summer!
I have attacked your personal character? Puhlease. Where and when? Afterall, you were the one that called me, "scum." And if you think my contradicting your posts are "personal attacks," then you have a thing coming.
And for the nth time, I'm not a plebe. I'm in the Class of 2005.
And for the nth time, I'm not a plebe. I'm in the Class of 2005.
Gentlemen, if you have to have a flamewar, fine. Do it over PM, IM, e-mail, or some other forum where the rest of the world doesn't have to hear you bicker. If you can't keep it civil in the public forum, there will be consequences.
I don't think we're arguing, we're just sharing information. :icon_mi_1
(If everybody is that straightforward with each other at the Academy then I better get used to it and like it, right?
)
1) When do you guys graduate and how long afterward do you wait until you start assignments? That's one question I've never seen before.
2) Also, do you find that the academic load gets easier after completing the core courses, and you finally spend more time specializing in the major you chose?
3) Thirdly, I have heard that a lot of the time, you cannot take advantage of liberty on the weekends very often because you would be too busy studying. What's your opinion on that?
4)Fourthly, are there regular events thrown by student government or other organizations throughout the year?
5) Fifthly, how hard is it to be involved in clubs? Are people involved in clubs, and if they are, do any do more than one or two?
6) What is your opinion on the college, looking back on it? What would you do differently/what did you learn?
7) Finally, what happened to the midshipmen who were pirating mp3's last year? That was a big story in the civilian world. I appreciate any answers.
Thanks!
(Good luck with graduation and service, then!)
(If everybody is that straightforward with each other at the Academy then I better get used to it and like it, right?
)1) When do you guys graduate and how long afterward do you wait until you start assignments? That's one question I've never seen before.
2) Also, do you find that the academic load gets easier after completing the core courses, and you finally spend more time specializing in the major you chose?
3) Thirdly, I have heard that a lot of the time, you cannot take advantage of liberty on the weekends very often because you would be too busy studying. What's your opinion on that?
4)Fourthly, are there regular events thrown by student government or other organizations throughout the year?
5) Fifthly, how hard is it to be involved in clubs? Are people involved in clubs, and if they are, do any do more than one or two?
6) What is your opinion on the college, looking back on it? What would you do differently/what did you learn?
7) Finally, what happened to the midshipmen who were pirating mp3's last year? That was a big story in the civilian world. I appreciate any answers.
Thanks!
(Good luck with graduation and service, then!)
Integer said:(If everybody is that straightforward with each other at the Academy then I better get used to it and like it, right?
Well there's not a lot of sugar coating or beating around the bush at the Academy. One of the greatest things about this place is how honest and open everyone is with each other.
Integer said:
Graduation week is at the end of May each year. The wait after graduation prior to starting your assignment can vary depending on where you're going and what you'll be doing, but typically within a month everyone is due to report.
Integer said:
The academic load does get easier after plebe year, but that is only because you don't have all the BS plebe duties and hazing taking up your time, and by the end of your plebe year you've learned how to manage your time effectively. As far as core courses, it depends on your major. If you're an engineering major, then it actually gets harder and some of my friends stay up until 1-2am everynight just so they can finish their homework (and they aren't slacking during the day either.) But if you're a history or political science major, then you can basically procrastinate and write your paper the night before it's due and still pass.
Integer said:
You can take advantage of liberty at your own risk. Nobody is going to "force" you to stay home on the weekends and study, but oftentimes people make the choice to stay home and catch up on sleep or participate in sports or to study. I don't think this is a bad thing, afterall the government isn't spending thousands of dollars on us so we can go out and have fun on the weekends.
Integer said:
There are plenty of events throughout the year. Some events are brigade-wide, but most are done at the company level. Some events are required, but most are optional. Each company has their social functions such as dances and barbeques and community service programs.
Integer said:
It isn't hard to be involved in clubs. Some clubs have tryouts that you have to go through, but many are open to everyone. I wouldn't say all mids are involved in clubs, but many are. Many participate in several clubs, and this is because the clubs really have a lot to offer. Of course if you don't study and blow off your exams, you won't be in those clubs for long, let alone the academy. Time management is key.
Integer said:
College was fun. I drank a lot and met a lot of girls and partied a lot. I remember how I used to ***** about a 10am class, and how often I skipped class and how easy it was to procrastinate and get away with it. I also did a lot of things in college that I'm not proud of. Some people like that lifestyle, but that wasn't for me so I applied to USNA and got in and it's the best decision I ever made in my life. Why? Well it's indescribable, and unless you spend a regular day here as a mid, you won't truly understand it either. I mean what could be so great about a place where you can't party of hook up with sorority chicks and where you have to be up every morning at 6am and take about 20 credits a semester? It's strange but despite all this, you just feel a lot more satisfied and proud to be here than anywhere else.
If I could do anything differently, I would've applied to USNA straight out of high school. Knowing what I know now, I could never be happy anywhere else.
Integer said:
As a mid you'll get briefed on piracy several times each year, but people still do it. That pirating deal last year was pretty hilarious, and the result was loss of privileges and additional duties, nothing big.
flyr534
Registered User
Wow, Im glad I went to OCS now..... I enjoyed chasing tail and drinking for 4 years, cant say Id have it any other way... To me, all this discussion has done is make the Navy sound bad and maybe chase away young people that want to join. I think the academy is a good place, and I fly with alot of guys that went there. However, if you dont get in guys........ dont be so heart broken that you give up on your dreams. There are alot of guys from OCS flying jets.
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