Pilot's gun discharges in flight

[NozeMan]

I A Sig 226 chassis (M11) will take a .45 barrel, which you can then load with hollow points. Beats the 9mm and ball rounds we're given.

The M11 is actually a Sig P228, the compact version of the 226. And I dont think the 226 "chassis" is able to be converted to .45.....Sig just designed the single-stacked P220 instead.

Nittany pointed that one out, P220 compacts would be a nice addition to the flight gear. Too bad the AF is the branch actively pursuing the .45 as a side arm again. When it comes down to using FMJ as the law states, .45 is a better choice in general.


...not tryin to further the .45 vs 9mm debate. My personal defense weapon is a 9mm Glock 19 w/ Federal Hydrashocks.....and a nice 12GA Mossberg

 

[nittany03]

You can keep your finger off the trigger, right?

That's why Glock is "Safe Action". All the safeties are buily into the trigger, the most effective being the one between your ears.

Yes, but the point of a "safety" is to allow for some prevention of buffoonery re: the trigger and it getting pulled inadvertently by whatever means. If no one ever screwed up, why would we need a safety? The Glock "safety" IMO leaves a lot to be desired. A true "safety" keeps you from physically pulling the trigger. All of a Glock's "safeties" are disabled when you pull the trigger.

I'll take an extra 7lbs or so of trigger pull on my first shot for the added security when it's 2:45 in the morning and some meth head busted down the wrong door. I've never been in a self-defense situation; I can't guarantee my finger won't go right for the trigger before my brain kicks in. I'm fairly sure it won't, but we all have the potential to screw up. If I have a couple seconds to think and cage my brain before engaging, then I can always thumb the hammer back on my SIG and render the point moot. Maybe with more training I would feel comfortable with a Glock, but after having researched what the lawyers can do to you in a defense scenario, I'll take my SA/DA SIG over a "Safe Action."

 

[HH-60H]

Yes, but the point of a "safety" is to allow for some prevention of buffoonery re: the trigger and it getting pulled inadvertently by whatever means. If no one ever screwed up, why would we need a safety? The Glock "safety" IMO leaves a lot to be desired. A true "safety" keeps you from physically pulling the trigger. All of a Glock's "safeties" are disabled when you pull the trigger.

And a safety can keep the trigger from working when you actually need it to work.

I know what your answer is, your training keeps that from happening... guess what? The same training can keep you from shooting yourself with a Glock.

 

[wink]

I'll take an extra 7lbs or so of trigger pull on my first shot for the added security

I know two cops that literally were on the press and the hammer on their DA/SA semi autos was coming back when the suspect stopped their deadly intention. Certainly, if the shot had been made, it would have been justified. But who needs it? No one wants to kill some one unless they truly have to. In one of the cases the guy was drunk. His real crime, intoxication. His mistake was having a gun in his hands when the police arrived. Public intoxication is not a capital offense. The extra few pounds of DA press saved the suspects life. SA 1911 style pistols have their place. They are great guns. But there is a reason they are not favored by law enforcement or any military but spec ops any more.

 

[Gitr]

They may not be favored by agencies, but many friends in some three letter agencies carry 1911 primary weapons because they are solid weapons as far as the full balance of the weapon is concerned (weighting, balance, power, recoil, etc).

 

[wink]

They may not be favored by agencies, but many friends in some three letter agencies carry 1911 primary weapons because they are solid weapons as far as the full balance of the weapon is concerned (weighting, balance, power, recoil, etc).

I'd put those guys in the spec ops category. True they are great in the hand, but there are other pistols with great weight and balance. 1911 style pistols are great for more then just balance. They just are not suitable for everyday L.E. work or most personal protection.

 

[A4sForever]

.....SA 1911 style pistols have their place. They are great guns. But their is a reason they are not favored by

1. law enforcement
2. any military but spec ops

Right ... but that's because:

1. A 1911 requires too much training that's NEVER going to happen in today's garden variety LE organization ... and there's too many firearms-illiterate DA's and lawyers breathing down their necks with each and every shooting ... and cocked & locked carry is seen by most as "frightening" or "dangerous". :sleep_125

2. A 1911 requires too much training that's NEVER going to happen in today's rank & file military organization ... there's just not that much time devoted to the range outside of the aforementioned SPECOPS.

Is there a pattern developing here???

In one man's opinion, the 1911 is the single finest pistol that's ever been produced. If I can only "have one" ... that's the one I'm going to have ....

But you gotta train and practice w/ a 1911. It's not a "point & shoot" pistol, nor was it intended to become one. It's a "labor intensive" tool and requires an individual's dedicated effort to become safe and proficient with it.

 

[wink]

Right ... but that's because:

... and there's too many firearms-illiterate DA's and lawyers breathing down their necks with each and every shooting ... and cocked & locked carry is seen by most as "frightening" or "dangerous". :sleep_125

As usual, excellent points. This one is my favorite though. Most people just don't know how big a deal this can be. In addition to frightening and dangerous you can add, cowboyish, aggressive, unreasonable, and paranoid.

 

[A4sForever]

.... In addition to frightening and dangerous you can add, cowboyish, aggressive, unreasonable, and paranoid.

True again, but it IS the quickest way to get a 1911 into action. And that makes it probably the "quickest" of any semi-auto to get into action. Racking the SA auto slide can quickly become problematic in so many ways ....

Now that I think about it, "quick" is not always a good thing for a LEO. If I were a uniformed cop today -- I'd want a DA/SA semi-auto hanging on my belt.

If I could have "only one" pistol ... you know the rest of the story.

 

[insanebikerboy]

True again, but it IS the quickest way to get a 1911 into action.

I think you just hit why they are looked on negatively when carried like that. Those scared DA's and politicians, etc, seem to think that it's dangerous and that if that's the quickest way to get it into a fight, then get something that's not quite as dangerous.

Me, I'd stick with the 'ole cocked and locked anyday.

 

[A4sForever]

Oh yeah ... had lunch this weekend w/ a 3-Star member of a local Sheriff's Department (3 stars meaning he's a heavy in the Dept. ) ... and as he had just got off duty, guess what was strapped to his waist???

That's right, a cocked and locked 1911.

I laughed about it and referenced our (and other) discussions about that particular mode and model of carry -- and he said they're giving the option to all their more senior and tenured Deputies in addition to the "special" units -- w/ the requisite training. He said after years of Wonder-9's and Euro-Trash 1911 derivatives --- his department (and some other adjacent agencies) are going back to the one that 'brung 'em ... the 1911.

The more things change ... :icon_wink

 

[Herc_Dude]

The other day I was at a local pizza joint when a few Blue boys walked in. One of them was a big ol TexMex with a nickel-plated 1911. That caught my attention right away (kinda expect black and plastic). The next thing that really caught my attention, considering some of the "reasons" (misconceptions of DAs, etc...) stated above - cocked and locked.

I was very impressed - and happy to see it in use.

 

[wink]

Oh yeah ... had lunch this weekend w/ a 3-Star member of a local Sheriff's Department (3 stars meaning he's a heavy in the Dept. ) ... and as he had just got off duty, guess what was strapped to his waist???

That's right, a cocked and locked 1911.

I laughed about it and referenced our (and other) discussions about that particular mode and model of carry -- and he said they're giving the option to all their more senior and tenured Deputies in addition to the "special" units -- w/ the requisite training. He said after years of Wonder-9's and Euro-Trash 1911 derivatives --- his department (and some other adjacent agencies) are going back to the one that 'brung 'em ... the 1911.

The more things change ... :icon_wink

The Sheriff's Office I volunteer for authorizes 1911s. You don't see very many these days though.

On the original subject, the US Airways Captain that had the negligent discharge was fired by US Airways a week or two ago. No official word on the reason, but he was doing something with his weapon on descent to approach at 8000 feet. Not supposed to be distracted by anything, including non business talk below 10K. That could be why. The law that authorized FFDOs states armed pilots can not be disciplined for their participation and actions in the program. The company was probably just looking for a reason.