• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Pilot shortage?

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2013/11/fanning-air-force-having-trouble-keeping-pilots-and-pay-isnt-problem/73811/

Article discussing concerns over keeping military pilots, specifically AF in the service. And how the bonus isn't doing the trick. I think the article does a poor job and misses out on many other issues such as mission creep, do more with less and how crazy the intrusive leadership model has become over the years striving for zero defect across the force. Now you have the airlines hiring and while the grass may not necessarily be greener, many are choosing to walk away as pilots when their commitment is up. I am seeing a lot of this in the Navy, and at a recent job fair I ran into a lot of military pilots getting out. Curious how this is going to hit manning levels.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
Good news for OCS, I guess…they always pick up the slack.

No worries…I think we still have more volunteers than slots. And no worries about all the other BS: "T-Notches", etc. It's amazing what sharp senior LTs, given the opportunity, can do in a squadron...even better than "due course" LCDRs in some cases.

The Republic is secure.
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
R1,

I was a JO in a squadron where all the quality Pilots had left before their DH tour. 14 DHs, only two of which were worth a damn. Quality is still quality. Whether it is a civilian corporations HR dept or PERS 43, you need to keep your quality personnel in. If not you need to wonder why they are leaving.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
R1,

I was a JO in a squadron where all the quality Pilots had left before their DH tour. 14 DHs, only two of which were worth a damn. Quality is still quality. Whether it is a civilian corporations HR dept or PERS 43, you need to keep your quality personnel in. If not you need to wonder why they are leaving.
The willingness to "stay in" is a "quality" all in itself. There were many times I couldn't wait for good (effective) officers and pretty shit-hot fighter pilots to get the fuck out of my Ready Room because all they did was bitch and moan and read airline trade journals.

No amount of money is going to "keep in" those who "want out" for various reasons…and I ceased judging them for their personal decisions decades ago. The Navy/Marine Corps will ALWAYS do VERY well with those they have. Witness the last 102 years of Naval Aviation history.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Given the horrific screen rates for O-4/DH of the past couple years, coupled with the deliberate under accession of aviators in YGs 2007-2010, the next 5 years or so in naval aviation could prove very interesting. Hopefully we don't end up back in a situation with no DH screen board or something. I've heard horror stories of some of the mouth breathers they allowed to be DHs in the mid 2000s simply because they needed bodies to fill billets. I think the plus side of the low rates of recent history is that there is definitely pressure to perform, JOs know this, and so slackers amongst JOs are not well received.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Given the horrific screen rates for O-4/DH of the past couple years, coupled with the deliberate under accession of aviators in YGs 2007-2010, the next 5 years or so in naval aviation could prove very interesting. Hopefully we don't end up back in a situation with no DH screen board or something. I've heard horror stories of some of the mouth breathers they allowed to be DHs in the mid 2000s simply because they needed bodies to fill billets. I think the plus side of the low rates of recent history is that there is definitely pressure to perform, JOs know this, and so slackers amongst JOs are not well received.
The dark side is strong in this one, watch as she lets the VP mafia flow through her. It is unavoidable, it is her destiny.

 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
If I remember correctly (I won't lie, when I heard they were looking for folks with AEGIS backgrounds I looked) with the exchange rates where they are, their pay is actually better, except perhaps for cost of living there. Another nice thing about their pay scale is "doing shit" is more significantly monetarily rewarded (ie comparatively more for sea pay, flight pay, dive pay, etc.)

OTOH, pensions are means tested.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
It's amazing what sharp senior LTs, given the opportunity, can do in a squadron...even better than "due course" LCDRs in some cases.

The Republic is secure.
But, it will inevitably reduce the numbers of these "sharp senior LTs", as they're the ones who will be bailing. The average experience level in squadrons (flight & general) will be significantly reduced, and that can't be good for either flight safety, or efficiency!
BzB
 

robav8r

Future performance not guaranteed . . .
None
Contributor
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2013/11/fanning-air-force-having-trouble-keeping-pilots-and-pay-isnt-problem/73811/I think the article does a poor job and misses out on many other issues such as mission creep, do more with less and how crazy the intrusive leadership model has become over the years striving for zero defect across the force. Now you have the airlines hiring and while the grass may not necessarily be greener, many are choosing to walk away as pilots when their commitment is up.
I agree with a lot of this. The real issue as I see it, and I lived through all the tumult since the 80's, is the poor "quality of work" not all the other stuff. I can tell Sailors to work harder, longer and for less pay. And most of them will, for the most part, do just that. But they have to believe in leadership, the mission and have the tools to do the job. There is an ever increasing sense amoung the force that their contributions are not as appreciated as they once were, the mission is going away and the tools to do their job are insufficient to the task. I see this attitude in both enlisted & officer ranks. Many will continue to fight what they see as the good fight (myself included). But let's not discount the effect that never ending CR's, sequestration and force-shaping, social engineering is having on our folks. People are watching & paying attention.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The dark side is strong in this one, watch as she lets the VP mafia flow through her. It is unavoidable, it is her destiny.

Don't you wish that hate on me Ricky Bobby. I just hope the DHs of the future are not the guys that qualified PPC/TACCO yet were never allowed to sit those positions without babysitters and were just qualified so the command didn't have to go through the process of kicking them out. The problem with those guys is, come FITREP time, some of those guys get EPs because, well, they're nice guys and work hard at their ground jobs and the skipper has one more EP to give out. With said EP they now have a good shot of making DH. When they come in the squadron again it's assumed they're good in the plane and can be help JOs develop tactically, when that might not have been the case at all. And thus mediocrity perpetuates.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
But, it will inevitably reduce the numbers of these "sharp senior LTs", as they're the ones who will be bailing. The average experience level in squadrons (flight & general) will be significantly reduced, and that can't be good for either flight safety, or efficiency!
BzB
I would deem that a bad quality. From Office Space:

"My only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."
I know where you guys are coming from. But it's nothing new. The "sharp Lieutenant" who is getting out isn't promotable nor will s/he be around to lead in the future. Many others will. History seems to show that, in the big picture, they will do fine. Please spare me the litany of "Another CO Gets Fired". I read the papers as well.

As to the "Office Space" reference…I get that too. But I think it does a disservice to the many who "stay in", and colors them as the "no option" cadre. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
 
Top