Pilot or NFO

[DDriver]

There is no such thing as inferior or superior Navy job, or designator, rate or whatever. I loved my enlisted rating. I wouldn't do anything else. But I wouldn't say either that another rating is inferior or whatever. Or that mine is superior to this and that...

I'm sorry if my post confused you.

 

[wink]

I only came on strong because many applicants believe it or are told that. As you know it is a bad attitude to start a Navy career with. It also shows an ignorance of Naval Aviation I wish to correct before anyone signs a contract or takes the notion to OCS.

 

[EODDave]

Wink,

I maybe the exception to age waiver beyond the limit. I graduated from UF after I turned 31 then started OCS at 31 and a half. Graduated 3 months before my 32nd birthday. However, I had some truely strange circumstances involving my prior service. I can say that I'm the oldest guy in the pipeline for SNA's as I'll be 33 in a couple months. I will agree with your statement about age waivers in general. The Aviation Community Manager told me that they dont give out waivers just because a person is a day late and a dollar short in making up their mind in wanting to fly for the Navy. I dont know anyone else here or at Whiting past the age, or waiverable age for priors. It just doesn't happen.

Dave

 

[schmuckatelli]

Originally posted by wink
...In 23 years I knew three guys that got laterals because the navy really needed guys in that year group. When it does happen you also stay in the aircraft you came from....

Wink, this is no longer true. NFOs that are accepted for a lateral transfer to pilot compete with all the other SNAs for platform selection out of primary.

 

[schmuckatelli]

Here is a link to the NAVADMIN with the info for this year:
http://www.bupers.navy.mil/navadmin/nav03/nav03109.txt

 

[EODDave]

good link for future nfo's.

Dave

 

[coffmanr]

Ok, so NFO's cannot (or at least very rarely) switch to pilots...how about someone going to API as a SNA having a chance to switch to NFO? If this is possible, how far in the pipeline can one switch to NFO?

-MIDN Coffman

 

[EODDave]

While at API if you meet the following you might and I repeat might be allowed to switch from NFO to SNA.
1) Top 5% of your class
2) Physicaly qualified
3) Qualifying ASTB scores
4) If the CO of NAVAVSCOLCOM grants the request

When I went through last November this was the policy. Is it ongoing? Don't know. If the Navy needs for SNA's then probably, if not then who knows. Maybe there is someone on the board at API now that knows or can find out. The above was true when I left Pensacola last November.

Dave

 

[wink]

Thanks for the updates guys. You can appreciate the logic of sending a retread NFO back to his original community. He has just spent 3 years or more learning the mission. If he goes back he will be that much better a pilot mission commander. Also puts new pilots going to a new aircraft/mission at the 5-8 year point of their careers behind the power curve. They now have to compete with pilots that have much more time in the aircraft and know the mission so much better. I suppose sending them every which way makes it easier to appropriately man the fleet to the Navy's needs.

 

[bunk22]

Originally posted by wink
Thanks for the updates guys. You can appreciate the logic of sending a retread NFO back to his original community. He has just spent 3 years or more learning the mission. If he goes back he will be that much better a pilot mission commander. Also puts new pilots going to a new aircraft/mission at the 5-8 year point of their careers behind the power curve. They now have to compete with pilots that have much more time in the aircraft and know the mission so much better. I suppose sending them every which way makes it easier to appropriately man the fleet to the Navy's needs.

I don't agree with your reasoning at all. Just because someone makes a good F-14 RIO does not mean they will be a good F-14 pilot. They need to compete with the others to determine their stick and rudder skills and beyond. Didn't the original NFO to pilot program end because of a string of CLASS A's caused by Pilot's who were prior NFO's? The NFO's were slated to fly the aircraft of their community. Apparently they did so even if they weren't quite up to par with the program. I'm sure there is probably more to it than what I mentioned but that's the rumor.

I know I'm late to this discussion and no flames intended but knowing what I know now, there is no way in hell I would ever recommend any pilot going to NFO unless his flying ability was way below standards. Even then I might advise him to try something else. Just my honest opinion. Sorry.

 

[wink]

Not my opinion, that was just the way it was. I do agree with most of it in principle. You are assuming that even though a retread didn't have the skill to hack whatever plane he came from they pushed him thru anyway. Can't say that was the case. You would have to accept that the Navy was willing to buy the risk to aircraft and crew if the guy wasn't up to it just because "that is how its done". Can't believe that. I never heard of a rash of Class As from retreads either. Does sound like rumor. Either way, probably better the way it is now. Also, never heard of a designated pilot becoming an NFO because of his poor stick and rudder skills. Did know a couple guys in the old days that were very sharp and disqualed at the boat in advanced just before winging. Those guys had no general airmanship problems or judgement problems. Also had very good attitudes in spite of what happened to them. They were dropped into VT-86 and became NFOs. One even commanded a VAQ squadron and was Air Ops on Ike. On the other hand the two cases I know of poor stick and rudder skills in pilots resulted in Boards and they lost their wings. Wouldn't do much for the NFO community's moral or reputation to have to suck up guys like that.

 

[bunk22]

Originally posted by wink
Not my opinion, that was just the way it was. I do agree with most of it in principle. You are assuming that even though a retread didn't have the skill to hack whatever plane he came from they pushed him thru anyway. Can't say that was the case. You would have to accept that the Navy was willing to buy the risk to aircraft and crew if the guy wasn't up to it just because "that is how its done". Can't believe that. I never heard of a rash of Class As from retreads either. Does sound like rumor. Either way, probably better the way it is now. Also, never heard of a designated pilot becoming an NFO because of his poor stick and rudder skills. Did know a couple guys in the old days that were very sharp and disqualed at the boat in advanced just before winging. Those guys had no general airmanship problems or judgement problems. Also had very good attitudes in spite of what happened to them. They were dropped into VT-86 and became NFOs. One even commanded a VAQ squadron and was Air Ops on Ike. On the other hand the two cases I know of poor stick and rudder skills in pilots resulted in Boards and they lost their wings. Wouldn't do much for the NFO community's moral or reputation to have to suck up guys like that.

The Navy's way of solving problems is usually half-ass. I personally felt that when the NFO to pilot went away due to the mishaps (the was the explanation) it didn't make sense. Lets say a SWO converts to pilot and wrecks, is it right to stop all SWO's from becoming pilots? The way the Navy does the program now makes sense. Compete with the rest and the community will be selected upon their performance. I understand how the Navy used to do it but IMO, that's a formula for trouble. If the Tomcat RIO has the skills, fine, go strike. If they don't, they have no business going the strike route. Don't get me wrong, I understand there is always more to a CLASS A, B, or C than meets the eye (I know this all too well). I simply remember the Navy stating the NFO to pilot was cancelled due to a string of accidents from those in the program.

Also, by stick and rudder, I meant all flying skills, from airwork to headwork. Sorry I wasn't clear.