P-8 career advice -shore tours, sea tours, & more (oh my!)

[cfam]

I echo what everyone said above regarding a lateral transfer. I honestly think FAO would be a a good fit for you. You’ll have the opportunity to get a masters, learn a language, and live abroad. Sure you may not get the region you want, but you’ll definitely get to live some interesting places and not be tied to a flight schedule. Also, if you decide you miss flying, there’s always the chance of getting a flying attaché gig down the road.

 

[Griz882]

Any advice I can offer is way, way out dated, but I have a friend who didn’t like the flying and did an ROTC gig on his shore tour while getting his MA. From the academic side..an MBA from even the best UK school is not a power move. The degree doesn’t carry the heft it does in the US. If MBA is your ultimate goal try for some Ivy and then move to London.

 

[IRfly]

I echo what everyone said above regarding a lateral transfer. I honestly think FAO would be a a good fit for you. You’ll have the opportunity to get a masters, learn a language, and live abroad. Sure you may not get the region you want, but you’ll definitely get to live some interesting places and not be tied to a flight schedule. Also, if you decide you miss flying, there’s always the chance of getting a flying attaché gig down the road.

There's this, but as with anything else in the Navy, much will be out of your control. So you might want Paris and end up in Libreville. Or worse, OPNAV.

Have you considered an Olmsted application?

 

[cfam]

There's this, but as with anything else in the Navy, much will be out of your control. So you might want Paris and end up in Libreville. Or worse, OPNAV.

Have you considered an Olmsted application?

Totally agree about the total crapshoot that is FAO detailing.

Olmsted could be a perfect option, but he would need an EP to be competitive. The foundation’s board has the idealistic view that every scholar is a future admiral or general, so they prioritize operational performance. The only other catch would be the obligation incurred (3 years per year abroad).

OP, feel free to PM if you’re at all interested in pursuing Olmsted.

 

[CommodoreMid]

A JO during my DH tour got a billet in the UK, so not out of the possible, but you would have to get lucky. Most of your overseas options in MPRA are going to be CTF billets. Can’t speak to the lifestyles of the JOs at 57/67, but for the 72 guys most had lots of opportunities to travel for work, and all have great chances to travel for play. Be advised CTF life does involve weekend/holiday type efforts not infrequently compared to 30/wing life.

Regardless of what you choose to do, keep striving for MC/IP and crushing your ground jobs. Don’t close doors by not getting every qual you can. With regards to your DHs, most are going to be open minded on the career advice thing. Find a non 30/MPRWS one to talk more in depth about your desires since they’re going to have a better idea of your performance if you’re worried about golden path bias.

 

[robav8r]

If you are genuinely honest with yourself, and your front office about what you want - ask for it. It is true that you will suffer in the FITREP 500, but if you aren't a slug, have qualified on time, and viewed as a contributor in the squadron (in all areas), then I think your front office will support you.

 

[IRfly]

Totally agree about the total crapshoot that is FAO detailing.

Olmsted could be a perfect option, but he would need an EP to be competitive. The foundation’s board has the idealistic view that every scholar is a future admiral or general, so they prioritize operational performance. The only other catch would be the obligation incurred (2 years per year abroad).

OP, feel free to PM if you’re at all interested in pursuing Olmsted.

I used to think the same. But I just worked with an Olmsted guy (former helo bubba) who got an MP out of the squadron. Of course, probably got the MP because he was doing Olmsted, but I figure that if you're applying straight out of JO tour, then I'm pretty sure the Olmsted papers go in *before* you get your final competitive fitrep. So it's a win-win. If you're good and front office likes you, they say nice things and you get selected, while they get to save their EPs.

Failing that or a PEP, I second what @CommodoreMid said about getting an overseas tour. CNE staff, CTF-67, etc. For disassociated, I did FDNF in Yokosuka, and it was a blast living in Japan.

 

[cfam]

I used to think the same. But I just worked with an Olmsted guy (former helo bubba) who got an MP out of the squadron. Of course, probably got the MP because he was doing Olmsted, but I figure that if you're applying straight out of JO tour, then I'm pretty sure the Olmsted papers go in *before* you get your final competitive fitrep. So it's a win-win. If you're good and front office likes you, they say nice things and you get selected, while they get to save their EPs.

Failing that or a PEP, I second what @CommodoreMid said about getting an overseas tour. CNE staff, CTF-67, etc. For disassociated, I did FDNF in Yokosuka, and it was a blast living in Japan.

Interesting, and good to know! I think I know who you’re talking about if he’s also a FAO. Not sure if it depends on the year (I was a few years behind him), but the last few years have been pretty competitive. The board (and Naval Aviation leadership), seems pretty concerned about keeping folks on track and getting them back into the cockpit.

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

Come to Whidbey and shoot for a VP-69 Pilot slot after your active duty requirements?

I wouldn't mind coming back to Whidbey after it's all said an done (current Whidbey guy as it is). I just want to get the personal life situated a bit before hand and it's a bit difficult out here in the sticks.

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

If you don't do production during your first shore tour, you are going to have an uphill battle with Millington if you have career aspirations. You are correct that our community (aviation) has a different set of metrics than SWOs or Nukes in that respect. There is no shame in deciding that continued flying isn't your jam, but there are obvious career implications associated with that, save maybe a lateral transfer to some RL community (FAO seems to be one of the more common ones in that bag of offramps). There are a lot of cool off-track jobs out there, but I'd say significantly less so for JOs, though some exist. Be careful what you wish for. The time to "explore the space" is I think more the post-DH portion of your career, than it is the post-first tour.

As for reserves, you could do SELRES easily after leaving the cockpit. There are some cool places/NOSC's/NRC's or otherwise billets you can affiliate with. You'd have no chance at a flying hardware unit, but it doesn't sound like that is your cup of tea anyway.

I'm very ok being a terminal O-3, my experience thus far has solidified the idea that I alone am responsible for my own happiness and that the navy is going to "get theirs." They've done some not kosher stuff to me (talking beyond the scope of boo hoo I didn't get the orders I wanted) that has turned me off from ever pinning O-4, at least as an aviator. I've considered the RL communities but PERS43 would allow a transfer to that before my MSR over their dead bodies (they'd even try to make a DOR>POCR as painful as possible so I'd rather take my chances with a gucci shore tour after a successful sea tour). But yes, if they offer some good SELRES orders I'm happy to do it but a 9-5 back in the engineering world is attractive.

 

[Griz882]

….it's a bit difficult out here in the sticks.

What? The Skagit Symphony not up to your standards?😀

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

Power move, apply for TPS if you want to explore Pax River with VX-20. Or, try for a VX-1 slot where you can still fly, then go reserves or boat then out. Other than station pilot or Wing-10 I don’t know what would get you out of Jax in the cockpit.

Edit: IST to the ANG or coast Guard? If you don’t want to fly, you’re almost guaranteed an admirals aid gig if you want it and don’t have a contrasting personality. I heard the job might be difficult but you get to travel overseas a lot, and network like a MF for future jobs.

I have some O-4 friends/ mentors who dabbled in VX and VXS and I'd love to take a crack at it. They're just few and far between so I wanted to explore some options. As for IST, CG is the dream but that'll be after my MSR. I'll clarify that I like flying but it's the ahem "unique" way that the navy does it that is giving me high blood pressure and sucking the fun out of it. On top of that, no one will really tell me about my performance (i.e. am I regular stupid or PPC stupid as a 2P still, so lets assume my skills are ~average~)

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

What? The Skagit Symphony not up to your standards?😀

I was told to run if I heard banjos...

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

The VPenis detailers got upset when JOs started using the public billet list against them to negotiate orders so stopped posting them.

Your first 6-12 months in a squadron usually determines your career path (no later than PPC). From there, your shore tour options will be made available for you to keep you moving on your path.

FAO might be a more enjoyable path for you, depending on how picky you are about specific regions.

A bit picky just because I like what I'm used to, but I'm still in the "I want to experience everything the world has to offer" time of my life.

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

I used to think the same. But I just worked with an Olmsted guy (former helo bubba) who got an MP out of the squadron. Of course, probably got the MP because he was doing Olmsted, but I figure that if you're applying straight out of JO tour, then I'm pretty sure the Olmsted papers go in *before* you get your final competitive fitrep. So it's a win-win. If you're good and front office likes you, they say nice things and you get selected, while they get to save their EPs.

Failing that or a PEP, I second what @CommodoreMid said about getting an overseas tour. CNE staff, CTF-67, etc. For disassociated, I did FDNF in Yokosuka, and it was a blast living in Japan.

Olmstead or other programs sound like a great opportunity, I'm just a bit concerned about accruing an increased service obligation. 3x the length of time the officer was in the overseas program, served concurrently tacks on extra time that I could just use taking the classes with the GI Bill.