P-8 career advice -shore tours, sea tours, & more (oh my!)

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

Happy New Year all,

Long time lurker, first time poster but I'll get right into it.

The further I get into squadron life and fleet flying the more I start to think the "Golden Path" is not for me. For far too much of my life I have chosen the route of what outwardly seems most successful to literally everyone else... except for me. It seems like every other question I'm asked is "what are you doing after your sea tour/ are you trying to go for instructor/ etc?" to which I give the classic "I'd like to keep all my options on the table." But the truth is, there's nothing I want to do less than go back to Jax, Pensacola, or Corpus. As it is, my wardroom is full of some miserable people kind of just going through the motions at this point and I just really need some sort of goal to work towards so I don't get dragged into the cynicism and soul death I'm witnessing happening to my friends. A trusted DH told me the other day that if I really want to do something/ go somewhere specific, I should make my desires known early and often to the front office to see if they could pull some obscure cool orders for me.

Here's what I'd like to do:
Shore tour- anywhere in western/northern Europe, ideally something in the UK, ideally London/ nearby. It would be awesome if I could fly but it's not necessary. It'd be awesome if it was MPRA related, but not necessary. I'm a people person and would work well in a NATO role, worked a bit in politics here and there before. (They were not as keen on lat transfers to intel as I would have hoped for my original plan.)
Sea Tour- c'mon guys we know they're gonna stick me on USS Ship out of Norfolk
Separation- go back to school and use that way overpowered G.I. Bill to get my masters in civil engineering or an MBA from Oxford/ Cambridge/King's College/ UCL etc. I'm ok with only touching a plane for my own enjoyment on the GA side.
Reserves- will they even take me? I'll have been out of the cockpit for 4 years after leaving my first sea tour but dang TRICARE and some extra beer money is nice.

I'm happy to hear the good, the bad, the ugly! Thanks all.

 

[Griz882]

Maybe a flying exchange tour? Are those even available for JO’s?

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

Maybe a flying exchange tour? Are those even available for JO’s?

PEP, if an option, is one of the most competitive slots out there, and though I'm a decent pilot and JO, I'm not God's gift to aviation.

 

[zippy]

PEP, if an option, is one of the most competitive slots out there, and though I'm a decent pilot and JO, I'm not God's gift to aviation.

Unless the mindset has drastically changed, anything non traditional will require you to not be too competitive FITREP wise, so that could be an option for you. Saying you want an overseas gig easily can get interpreted into meaning you want to go to Misawa, or Bahrain so be very specific when you talk about locations/jobs you’re open to. The good news is due to current events, Europe isn’t as irrelevant as it has been over the last 20 years so new options may reveal themselves.

There used to be a couple sets of Csomethings in Sig.

If you really love London so much you could suck up a set of flying orders and apply to United’s UMPP and bid 756 out of Newark… as a junior guy you’d be in London every weekend whether you wanted to or not.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Had a blast as a VT flight instructor. Keeps you current and flying which, if you chose to transition, will pad your resume.

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

Unless the mindset has drastically changed, anything non traditional will require you to not be too competitive FITREP wise, so that could be an option for you. Saying you want an overseas gig easily can get interpreted into meaning you want to go to Misawa, or Bahrain so be very specific when you talk about locations/jobs you’re open to. The good news is due to current events, Europe isn’t as irrelevant as it has been over the last 20 years so new options may reveal themselves.

There used to be a couple sets of Csomethings in Sig.

If you really love London so much you could suck up a set of flying orders and apply to United’s UMPP and bid 756 out of Newark… as a junior guy you’d be in London every weekend whether you wanted to or not.

I peek each slate that comes in and I hadn't seen anything unique/ out of the ordinary. I've heard of one PEP slot per year. You all know how the game goes and that even the best laid plans will blow up in your face. But I was very serious about hanging up the flight suit. I'm keen on settling down with someone and starting a family eventually. I don't see that happening anywhere where I'm in the cockpit. Once flying became my job and all the bureaucracy was lopped on, it lost the magic. My #1 concern post squadron tour is QOL. No more flight schedule, quals, or sitting in the plane for three hours for a mx delay. I'm pretty much guaranteed a R-ATP by end of tour to use for regionals if I really want to get back into aviation, but my life situation/ goals would have to change for me to make airline hours a priority. Plenty happy getting my little masters abroad and living in peace on a more solid work schedule. Having lived in Europe for a bit I miss it a lot and would actually like to live there vice being a sad boi new FO getting schwacked on reserve every weekend.

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

There used to be a couple sets of Csomethings in Sig.

I can't go back there the dogs have my scent and the bloodlust!

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

Had a blast as a VT flight instructor. Keeps you current and flying which, if you chose to transition, will pad your resume.

Oh I'd have fun for sure! I've been an instructor in planes and other things and love to teach... it's unfortunately a location issue (Whiting and Corpus nearly drove me insane plus... options for a SO are pretty rough)

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Happy New Year all,

Long time lurker, first time poster but I'll get right into it.

The further I get into squadron life and fleet flying the more I start to think the "Golden Path" is not for me. For far too much of my life I have chosen the route of what outwardly seems most successful to literally everyone else... except for me. It seems like every other question I'm asked is "what are you doing after your sea tour/ are you trying to go for instructor/ etc?" to which I give the classic "I'd like to keep all my options on the table." But the truth is, there's nothing I want to do less than go back to Jax, Pensacola, or Corpus. As it is, my wardroom is full of some miserable people kind of just going through the motions at this point and I just really need some sort of goal to work towards so I don't get dragged into the cynicism and soul death I'm witnessing happening to my friends. A trusted DH told me the other day that if I really want to do something/ go somewhere specific, I should make my desires known early and often to the front office to see if they could pull some obscure cool orders for me.

Here's what I'd like to do:
Shore tour- anywhere in western/northern Europe, ideally something in the UK, ideally London/ nearby. It would be awesome if I could fly but it's not necessary. It'd be awesome if it was MPRA related, but not necessary. I'm a people person and would work well in a NATO role, worked a bit in politics here and there before. (They were not as keen on lat transfers to intel as I would have hoped for my original plan.)
Sea Tour- c'mon guys we know they're gonna stick me on USS Ship out of Norfolk
Separation- go back to school and use that way overpowered G.I. Bill to get my masters in civil engineering or an MBA from Oxford/ Cambridge/King's College/ UCL etc. I'm ok with only touching a plane for my own enjoyment on the GA side.
Reserves- will they even take me? I'll have been out of the cockpit for 4 years after leaving my first sea tour but dang TRICARE and some extra beer money is nice.

I'm happy to hear the good, the bad, the ugly! Thanks all.

Note: My advice comes as a non-13XX.

Can't you get a billet listing from PERS? I know other communities publicly list billets to allow folks to brainstorm and map out ideas.

While it's great to map out things way down the road... perhaps have your sights on shore duty first and THEN go from there? Things can change between now and say several years when your MSR obligation is complete.

 

[SaturdaysR4theBuoys]

Note: My advice comes as a non-13XX.

Can't you get a billet listing from PERS? I know other communities publicly list billets to allow folks to brainstorm and map out ideas.

While it's great to map out things way down the road... perhaps have your sights on shore duty first and THEN go from there? Things can change between now and say several years when your MSR obligation is complete.

I've been able to see the billet listing/ slates from my friends but for some reason I can find every other warfare community's shore slates except ours on a public site. And as much as I'd rather just be able to focus on the here and now I've gotten the impression that your shore billet pretty much determines a lot of your career path and you have to be VERY careful who you ask advice from. (ie sub guys value a shore tour as an Academy company officer but if I told one of my O-4s that they may Ol Yeller me behind the O-club). But yes, right now my focus is securing an out of the way, cool job that I would actually enjoy a bit and allow me to reclaim some of my personal identity again. I don't know, I've gotten to where I am in life by being a huge proactive ball of stress but now it's starting to work a real number on me.

 

[Waveoff]

Come to Whidbey and shoot for a VP-69 Pilot slot after your active duty requirements?

 

[MIDNJAC]

If you don't do production during your first shore tour, you are going to have an uphill battle with Millington if you have career aspirations. You are correct that our community (aviation) has a different set of metrics than SWOs or Nukes in that respect. There is no shame in deciding that continued flying isn't your jam, but there are obvious career implications associated with that, save maybe a lateral transfer to some RL community (FAO seems to be one of the more common ones in that bag of offramps). There are a lot of cool off-track jobs out there, but I'd say significantly less so for JOs, though some exist. Be careful what you wish for. The time to "explore the space" is I think more the post-DH portion of your career, than it is the post-first tour.

As for reserves, you could do SELRES easily after leaving the cockpit. There are some cool places/NOSC's/NRC's or otherwise billets you can affiliate with. You'd have no chance at a flying hardware unit, but it doesn't sound like that is your cup of tea anyway.

 

[Waveoff]

Power move, apply for TPS if you want to explore Pax River with VX-20. Or, try for a VX-1 slot where you can still fly, then go reserves or boat then out. Other than station pilot or Wing-10 I don’t know what would get you out of Jax in the cockpit.

Edit: IST to the ANG or coast Guard? If you don’t want to fly, you’re almost guaranteed an admirals aid gig if you want it and don’t have a contrasting personality. I heard the job might be difficult but you get to travel overseas a lot, and network like a MF for future jobs.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Power move, apply for TPS if you want to explore Pax River with VX-20. Or, try for a VX-1 slot where you can still fly, then go reserves or boat then out. Other than station pilot or Wing-10 I don’t know what would get you out of Jax in the cockpit.

Edit: IST to the ANG or coast Guard?

I'd suggest all these things too, but it sounds like he is done with flying. Perhaps I read his comments wrong though.

 

[zippy]

I've been able to see the billet listing/ slates from my friends but for some reason I can find every other warfare community's shore slates except ours on a public site. And as much as I'd rather just be able to focus on the here and now I've gotten the impression that your shore billet pretty much determines a lot of your career path and you have to be VERY careful who you ask advice from. (ie sub guys value a shore tour as an Academy company officer but if I told one of my O-4s that they may Ol Yeller me behind the O-club). But yes, right now my focus is securing an out of the way, cool job that I would actually enjoy a bit and allow me to reclaim some of my personal identity again. I don't know, I've gotten to where I am in life by being a huge proactive ball of stress but now it's starting to work a real number on me.

The VPenis detailers got upset when JOs started using the public billet list against them to negotiate orders so stopped posting them.

Your first 6-12 months in a squadron usually determines your career path (no later than PPC). From there, your shore tour options will be made available for you to keep you moving on your path.

FAO might be a more enjoyable path for you, depending on how picky you are about specific regions.