If you don't think there are issues with flying 8000 hours on jets originally designed for 6000 then you are mistaken. And that's just from my little corner of the world.
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On Warfighting: The Warrior Spirit
- Thread starter Renegade One
- Start date
If you don't think there are issues with flying 8000 hours on jets originally designed for 6000 then you are mistaken. And that's just from my little corner of the world.
And from what I am told, when expensive and already low-fuel fighters become tankers too. For lack of more appropriate platforms. Yes?
I'll take the bait. Start doing a little digging around / asking questions about the current state of E/F/G parts supply. Without opening the kimono too wide... When cannibalizing consumable is the only way to keep a few jets in the air... It's a bad day.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I've never been in a community outside TRACOM where Canning isn't the norm.
Granted I flew the oldest helos in the Navy, and the Hummer is older than that.
Granted I flew the oldest helos in the Navy, and the Hummer is older than that.
There are different kinds of canning. Consumables are not the norm. AND, I'm talking about some of the newest aircraft in the fleet.
The more I think about your post, the more things come to mind. In addition to the pathetic state of our supply system, add to that the complete train wreck that is our enlisted manning. For too long there has been a lack of accountability by enlisted manning "managers" in TN. At every opportunity to "fix" things, the wrong choices have been made - and in the end made things worse. There are simply not enough people to properly man deployable squadrons. A common theme is to simply cross deck our Sailors from one deploying squadron to another (assuming they can clear PTS/ERB/GFY hurdles). There are currently squadrons out there who cannot properly (and properly means IAW 4790) man two shifts. You can encourage us to buck up and find a way, sure, but at some point our leaders should just stop asking "what do you need" if they're not going to make hard choices and actually respond.
The answer from our flag leadership is, "we hear you. we've got it."
OT - Can anyone tell me the etymology of the words, "warfighting" or "warfighter?"
In my day a "warfighter" (one who fights against wars?) would have been an anti-war activist - i.e., a peacenik or a hippie.
I suspect warfighter was a neologism made up by some defense contractor to sound special. But I could be wrong. (Do people who use the word ever tasted combat?)
To me, the people who fight for us are soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines... along with some other great but unnamed people. A warrior does not fight against war. He is not a “warfighter.” He fights against any and all enemies, as those defined in his oath. For us.
In my day a "warfighter" (one who fights against wars?) would have been an anti-war activist - i.e., a peacenik or a hippie.
I suspect warfighter was a neologism made up by some defense contractor to sound special. But I could be wrong. (Do people who use the word ever tasted combat?)
To me, the people who fight for us are soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines... along with some other great but unnamed people. A warrior does not fight against war. He is not a “warfighter.” He fights against any and all enemies, as those defined in his oath. For us.
I believe the term "warfighter" was coined to make sure everyone felt special, important and involved. Also see: NWUs.
I loved my Navy pre fall 1991. After fall 1991 until I retired I mostly liked my Navy but realized part of it really sucked ass. From what I read and hear, I'd hate today's Navy and probably wouldn't last past the initial commitment.
I'm glad there are those willing to put up with the total BS that seems to be today's Navy because God knows we need them, but everyday I'm glad I'm retired and can observe from the sidelines. Heaven only knows what kind of trouble my mouth would get me into if I was still on active duty today.
Of course drinking with a bunch of 20 something FAs makes me walk on egg shells too.... When I was a senior FO, I flew with senior hags who slammed/clicked and never wanted to socialize (thank God). Now that I'm a junior Captain flying with junior FAs who like to leave their hotel rooms on the shitty trips no one wants, I have too be very careful not to seem like the dirty old man I am when we are out drinking. All things considered, I think I'd rather chance saying something inappropriate to a hot young FA than to an asshole senior officer so I guess Im' better off. BTW, the Hilton in Oakland mixes a mean Margarita ...
John....you too will come to understand.....
I'm glad there are those willing to put up with the total BS that seems to be today's Navy because God knows we need them, but everyday I'm glad I'm retired and can observe from the sidelines. Heaven only knows what kind of trouble my mouth would get me into if I was still on active duty today.
Of course drinking with a bunch of 20 something FAs makes me walk on egg shells too.... When I was a senior FO, I flew with senior hags who slammed/clicked and never wanted to socialize (thank God). Now that I'm a junior Captain flying with junior FAs who like to leave their hotel rooms on the shitty trips no one wants, I have too be very careful not to seem like the dirty old man I am when we are out drinking. All things considered, I think I'd rather chance saying something inappropriate to a hot young FA than to an asshole senior officer so I guess Im' better off. BTW, the Hilton in Oakland mixes a mean Margarita ...
John....you too will come to understand.....
Can't respond to all of the details, but can I just say that every generation of Naval Aviation has has its own "pain points" and "crosses to bear"? Most (not all) of the above seems to be about aging aircraft, parts and cannibalization. I guess those are your pain points (along with enlisted distribution...on which I can't really comment about today, except to say that we've lived with the whole "1 up/1 down" paradigm for decades...me too. "Hey, I know you need three AQ3s and three AQ2s and two AQ1s and an AQC...but you HAVE three AQANs, three AQ3s, two AQ2s and an AQ1..so you're GOOD, yes? Feel free to call us back anytime..."
We tried so hard to start something called "Closed-Loop Detailing"...at least try to keep the F-14-experienced guys within the F-14 community. No workee...that would get in the way of enlisted retention...wherein guys wanted to work in San Diego (sailing, surfing and ATVs in the desert), then get a tour in Seattle (for the fishing), then Brunswick, ME (for the hunting and skiing)...you get the idea. So our NEW AQ1 (to fill the AQC billet) came to us from a P-3 squadron...and could barely spell AWG-9.
My most telling "readiness vignette": 1980, turnaround, typical 12-plane F-14 squadron at Miramar...8 fuselages stacked in the hanger with 16...count 'em...16 bare firewalls (read: no engines...uh, they had a tendency to blow up on us...). The 4 "hard dick" airplanes we had to fly were kept so my copious amounts of cannibalization, and then were dutifully "canned" (engines included) in order to bring one out of the hangar to make sure no one BuNo went SPINTAC. And yet we pressed on...and met our goals, and were ready for whatever. Thank GOD for the Night Check crew...
Don't even get me started on the whole TQL thing of the mid-'90s...it was "guaranteed to fundamentally change the way we operate". Any of you below the rank of senior "hinge" even ever HEARD of TQL...and all the admin qweep that went with it?
Hal: Roger your comment about post-fall of 1991. "It was the worst of times". And thanks for the recce on the Oakland Hilton...filing that one away.
Not saying we had it any harder...just that some things never change. Breaks of Naval Air, I guess.
We're canning to keep airplanes with less than 500 TOTAL hours on them in the air. And there aren't enough people for a night check.
I think you're saying to-MAY-to while I say to-MAH-to...I get it.
For the Marines on AW - do you closed loop detail your maintainers? Assuming you do, how well does it work?
The way I understand it - manning is the top issue at the CNAF level.
I remember the TQL fun - I am curious to see if the 6 sigma will go the same way. I have heard it had done some good things with phase production, but I really don't think it is anything special - just sit down and use some common sense.
The way I understand it - manning is the top issue at the CNAF level.
I remember the TQL fun - I am curious to see if the 6 sigma will go the same way. I have heard it had done some good things with phase production, but I really don't think it is anything special - just sit down and use some common sense.
That's the thing. Just some gouge/heads up from the community managers would be great. Instead we continually send EMIRs that receive recycled responses. This is the kind of issue that senior leadership probably can't "over communicate" on.