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"Officer first, Aviator second," or other way around?
- Thread starter nfo2b
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webmaster said:
HAH !!! One of the best come-backs I've seen on this site .... many
'ing lamps lit tonight for the Web-san .... 
Hey, we don't work at McDonalds, you know?
While most assuredly all of us take exceptional pride (read as big ****ing ego) in our Wings of Gold, and can't believe every time we get to take our birds flying that the Navy is actually paying us to do this, but our respective jobs encompass so much more than "driving the bus". Leadership, mission planning, exercise preparations, training, running your dept/div/branch, fitreps, evals, counselling, mentoring, the dis-associated sea tours, the staff tours behind a desk and of course, paperwork, paperwork and more paperwork.
As A4s put it, the Fleet doesn't need the calibrating on this topic, WE know what we are...
Fellow mustang, don't know how to take that one, maybe I will have another VB and think harder on it, or maybe not...nfo2b said:
No, what you have read are college students and "maybe" some studs in the pipeline that all they think about are flying jets, jets, jets. Heck, I applaud anyone with a goal in todays celebration of mediocrity, but as you and others have put, we are Naval Officers in the worlds best Navy, bar none. As the poll results, and comments are going to show you, every one of the bubbas on here is going to say they are a Naval Officer, or for our cammie wearing friends, Officer of Marines (hopefully I didn't botch that). There is no confusion in my mind on what my job is and what I said when I took the oath.nfo2b said:
While most assuredly all of us take exceptional pride (read as big ****ing ego) in our Wings of Gold, and can't believe every time we get to take our birds flying that the Navy is actually paying us to do this, but our respective jobs encompass so much more than "driving the bus". Leadership, mission planning, exercise preparations, training, running your dept/div/branch, fitreps, evals, counselling, mentoring, the dis-associated sea tours, the staff tours behind a desk and of course, paperwork, paperwork and more paperwork.
As A4s put it, the Fleet doesn't need the calibrating on this topic, WE know what we are...
Would that be the short bus?A4sForever said:
Webmaster said:
Ahh, so we got jokes....jokes by a guy who drinks foo foo drinks, and jokes by a guy who needs to monitor his fiber intake.A4sForever said:HAH !!! One of the best come-backs I've seen on this site .... many
...and then a guy who's had one too many zoomies buzz around his headBrett327 said:
Super18Ordie
F/A-18 Ordnanceman
Just remember that without ordnance its just another unscheduled training flight
Commentary
I've been following these discussions for some weeks now, and I feel like interjecting a few things...the "no one get personally offended" light is ON.
I have "felt" a lot of trouble since being commissioned back in '04 with being an effective officer, and because this is only in my own perception (FITREPS/hearing about reputation indicate no problems) I will be more quick to take issue with the way the Navy treats its JOs...specifically, the ones with NO background in the service.
See, ever since I first set foot on a Navy ship, much less a Navy airplane, it's been obvious that the military runs on the expertise and work ethic of the enlisted men and women. Kipling taught me that at age 13. Great, I honestly took heart to this...scrubbed floors, stripped paint, and so forth with an enthusiastic committment to earning the commission, full well knowing that since I was a high-school appointee, I would be at the bottom of the heap for a while. I thought that was light-hearted, though; why would any organization hire me if I wasn't qualified?
Fast forward to 2004, and to today...the last year has seen numerous highly inappropriate conversations with junior enlisted people in front of Chiefs, Senior Chiefs, and even superior officers on commercial air flights...all of whom blatantly encouraged the view of ensigns as eternally useless without some prior fleet time. It went like this: E-2: "Sir, aren't you officers just figureheads? Way I see it, we could run this show without you." E-7: "Airman, don't embarrass him. He probably thinks OCS was hard."
Screw that. Command climate was much the same at each intermediate command, including a public works office where the Chief advocated not following the rules, and exchanged words with me on how little authority I had as the friggin DivO. Mistake: I left TAD with my tail between my legs; already cynical beyond words...it took flight school to build me back up again.
The bottom line here: I respect the hell out of anyone with prior experience; however, I am tempted to draw the line at the suggestion that I will never have pure/noble intentions like those of new RTC graduates. I took the oath too, maybe since I only swore to the Constitution and not to superiors on my first time, that means I'm elitist and can't be a follower too?
Christ/Allah/Vishnu/G-d, it only took the organization that commissioned me (I'll not name it) FOUR re-affirmations of the Oath of Office to finally let me get here. How many times do they reaffirm in Boot? 0, right? I thought you either stayed, or wash-out lane with no hard feelings. If I'd been in already and felt this babyed, I'd have left years ago.
Query: if all it takes to be an expert in the Navy is eight weeks in Chicago and an airman stripe (no offense, just a question), then why don't all officers have to go through that minor hell? But I can't do that...I'm past the P.O.N.R., it's legally impossible for me to enlist, and no one wants a cashiered officer in the ranks. Guess I'm Ivy League scum for life, just scum that beats the Marines in my group on the PRT run.
"Posts" (this Internet thing is new to me) like "nfo2b"'s seem to me analogous to someone joining a country club and afterward loudly exclaiming his disdain for golfers, instead of merely politely reminding them that the greenskeepers are their best resource, and that working together, they could better the whole organization.
I'm done for now, send the insults and career-ender threats...just remember, I do have a sense of humor and never had any trouble yukking it up with the wardroom on cruise, but I've heard and seen some things that made me want to go enlist in the Coast Guard. Thoughts, anyone?
I've been following these discussions for some weeks now, and I feel like interjecting a few things...the "no one get personally offended" light is ON.
I have "felt" a lot of trouble since being commissioned back in '04 with being an effective officer, and because this is only in my own perception (FITREPS/hearing about reputation indicate no problems) I will be more quick to take issue with the way the Navy treats its JOs...specifically, the ones with NO background in the service.
See, ever since I first set foot on a Navy ship, much less a Navy airplane, it's been obvious that the military runs on the expertise and work ethic of the enlisted men and women. Kipling taught me that at age 13. Great, I honestly took heart to this...scrubbed floors, stripped paint, and so forth with an enthusiastic committment to earning the commission, full well knowing that since I was a high-school appointee, I would be at the bottom of the heap for a while. I thought that was light-hearted, though; why would any organization hire me if I wasn't qualified?
Fast forward to 2004, and to today...the last year has seen numerous highly inappropriate conversations with junior enlisted people in front of Chiefs, Senior Chiefs, and even superior officers on commercial air flights...all of whom blatantly encouraged the view of ensigns as eternally useless without some prior fleet time. It went like this: E-2: "Sir, aren't you officers just figureheads? Way I see it, we could run this show without you." E-7: "Airman, don't embarrass him. He probably thinks OCS was hard."
Screw that. Command climate was much the same at each intermediate command, including a public works office where the Chief advocated not following the rules, and exchanged words with me on how little authority I had as the friggin DivO. Mistake: I left TAD with my tail between my legs; already cynical beyond words...it took flight school to build me back up again.
The bottom line here: I respect the hell out of anyone with prior experience; however, I am tempted to draw the line at the suggestion that I will never have pure/noble intentions like those of new RTC graduates. I took the oath too, maybe since I only swore to the Constitution and not to superiors on my first time, that means I'm elitist and can't be a follower too?
Christ/Allah/Vishnu/G-d, it only took the organization that commissioned me (I'll not name it) FOUR re-affirmations of the Oath of Office to finally let me get here. How many times do they reaffirm in Boot? 0, right? I thought you either stayed, or wash-out lane with no hard feelings. If I'd been in already and felt this babyed, I'd have left years ago.
Query: if all it takes to be an expert in the Navy is eight weeks in Chicago and an airman stripe (no offense, just a question), then why don't all officers have to go through that minor hell? But I can't do that...I'm past the P.O.N.R., it's legally impossible for me to enlist, and no one wants a cashiered officer in the ranks. Guess I'm Ivy League scum for life, just scum that beats the Marines in my group on the PRT run.
"Posts" (this Internet thing is new to me) like "nfo2b"'s seem to me analogous to someone joining a country club and afterward loudly exclaiming his disdain for golfers, instead of merely politely reminding them that the greenskeepers are their best resource, and that working together, they could better the whole organization.
I'm done for now, send the insults and career-ender threats...just remember, I do have a sense of humor and never had any trouble yukking it up with the wardroom on cruise, but I've heard and seen some things that made me want to go enlist in the Coast Guard. Thoughts, anyone?
Without (insert rate specific term here), it's just another (insert lame sounding job for an aircraft here).Super18Ordie said:
If I have to hear that once more - it's so Air Force. At least you're not bracketing your job title with the words "Combat" and "Dawgs."
Brett
I don't really know what direction you're coming from or where you're going. Perhaps you could be slightly less verbose, you know, just to get your point across. Nevertheless, here's what I've come up with:highlyrandom said:
I think you just might be taking things a bit too seriously, especially since you haven't even set foot in your first real squadron. Sure, not every CPO is going to be AJ squared away, and lots of Airmen need to be reminded of their station in life from time to time. Nothing new there. To be fair though, most Ensigns are fairly worthless and only about half the JGs around the squadron have anything of value to contribute. To joke about that is also nothing new, in fact, it is to be expected. If it comes from a piss-ant Airman, the proper reaction is not to get offended, but to consider the source, laugh it off, and even consider slinging a wise-crack back their way. It's called friendly banter - get used to it. With that in mind, I think you'll find a very different attitude when you get to your first squadron, and if, by chance, you don't like what you see, you'll be able to apply appropriate leadership commensurate with your prior experience and commission. Trust me, I have never lost a battle with a CPO, much less an Airman, especially where military bearing is concerned - you won't either. Does that help?
Good times,
Brett
highlyrandom said:
Hmmm........you've obviously experienced a lot in your whole year as a commissioned officer :smirk_125 To be brief, there's good and bad in the Navy. That's for everything, including leadership. The climate of a command is often formed by its leadership, the front office. Take that to heart as you continue through your career. I don't believe you've seen enough of the Navy or served enough time to draw many concrete conclusions.
Allrighty, yeah, that helps...but I was serious about the sense of humor thing, I have a pretty good one, and I guess the last few times I used it must have backfired...senior enlisted heard me say "dude, Airman...[don't knock professionalism, the tone of the conversation warranted it]...I know what you've been taught about us O's, and I'll listen to you as soon as you've scrubbed as many floors as I have." I caught hell.
Sorry about the verbosity, but I feel hostility undertones under the ragging from prior enlisted Os that I never felt as a midshipman. Hard to win when the CNO tells you you're a manager, and mostly can only sacrifice others' lives...it may be true, but just call this a case of beginner's cynicism. I'd like to think I'm on the same team as you guys, Brett, but just a bit of a newbie who still has something to offer, officer and future aviator. Thanks.
Sorry about the verbosity, but I feel hostility undertones under the ragging from prior enlisted Os that I never felt as a midshipman. Hard to win when the CNO tells you you're a manager, and mostly can only sacrifice others' lives...it may be true, but just call this a case of beginner's cynicism. I'd like to think I'm on the same team as you guys, Brett, but just a bit of a newbie who still has something to offer, officer and future aviator. Thanks.
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