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"Officer first, Aviator second," or other way around?

What do you believe?

  • "Officer First, Aviator Second"

    Votes: 47 81.0%
  • "Aviator First, Officer Second"

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • Don't care, where's the beer?

    Votes: 9 15.5%

  • Total voters
    58
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nfo2b

Well, not anymore... :(
After reading some posts in a couple of AirWarriors "Best Threads" that I feel were, well, to put nicely, opportunistic, I thought I'd pick some more AirWarriors' brains. I've seen a couple people here express their contemptuous feelings for the "Naval Officer first, Naval Aviator second" maxim. How many of you feel that this is not the case, or should not be the case in your careers?
My humble opinion:
Perhaps I'm a bit biased by my prior enlisted service or the fact that I'm a career man wether they let me fly or not, but I strongly believe this. I've read a couple of posts stating that all you really cared about was flying, and if you couldn't do that, then you would leave the Navy. And this may indeed be a popular sentiment among Naval aviators. But this is what puzzles me: if all you want to do is fly and not much else, then why do it in the Navy? I mean, there are ways to fly combat aircraft without having to deal with the politics/nuisances/annoyances/hinderances/chooseyourissues of being a Naval Officer. Like the Air Force. They place MUCH less emphasis on the whole officer thing and concentrate on flying. When's the last time you heard "He's an Air Force Officer," instead of "He's a fighter/bomber pilot in the Air Force."? I live in integrated housing (E's next door to O's) on a rather large Air Force base, and none of my AF neighbors ever use the term "Air Force Officer" except in cases of extreme formality. (No offense to any AF guys on this forum--I'm not saying that you're unprofessional, just that you place much less focus on the commission than you do on the wings in day to day life). However the term "Naval Officer" is practically colloquial. That is, it's a regular part of many American's vocabulary, in and out of the service. Then there's the Army, where you can fly some really cool helo's with little more than an associates degree and a warrant commission. Yeah, warrants are ususally the military's "red-headed stepchildren," (but we love them so ;) ), but at least if you're a CWO Apache pilot you can train your gun turret with your head!
Again, I guess I'm biased by my enslisted experience, but I want the officers above me to have us, their troops/sailors, at the top of their priority list when the helmet is off. Someone gave an example about a DH saying "Not now, I have a brief to attend," but this is not a case of being an "Aviator first, Officer second," it's simply responsibility and time management. If the comment is made in response to a trivial request, then it's justified, and it's being a responsible officer. But what if you're a DivO/BranchO (still don't know what that is) or even a DH, and your chief comes in and tells you, "Hey, AK1 just got in a car wreck and is in the hospital." I don't think many people here would say "Not now, I have a brief to attend." In fact, I believe (hope??) many would try their best to be temporarily absolved of their aviator duties and check on their sailor. Granted, I realize that this isn't always feasible, especially in tactically sensitive times, but for the most part, I believe that you should never forsake your duties and responsibilities as an officer for the mere sake of being an aviator.
To me, forsaking the "Officer first" principle is not only self-serving and inconsiderat, but detrimental to the overall mission and goals of the Navy as a whole. I'll save an explanation and expansion of this statement for later (no time now--2yr old waking from nap), but I'll leave these final thoughts on the table next to this open can of worms:
The words "Naval Aviator" were nowhere in your Oath of Commission."
You obtained your commission prior to your wings.
Only the President has the authority to commission you, but lower authorities may wing you.
Rhetorical question: When you're shot down over enemy territory and thrown into a POW camp, are you still an aviator first, officer second?
 

nfo2b

Well, not anymore... :(
BTW, I'm not bashing Aviators. I'm just as proud and grateful as the next guy to be joining the greatest military community in the entire world. Nothing else I'd rather do. But I still know my priorities, and I am even more grateful that I'm going to be a Naval Officer than a I am of being a Naval Aviator.
 

rare21

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
To me its "officer first, aviator second." I took my chances after the years in ROTC that if i had gotten SWO i would have taken it no questions asked. I know some folks that as soon as they learned that they didnt get aviation they quit (stayed college program just for that reason). I thought that was horsecrap. I took a SWO 1/C cruise even though i already had an aviation slot to see how the other half lived. Being an aviator is great and I feel lucky that i got the shot at it but i'm still an officer and if my kid decided one day to stab a pencil in my eye i'd still want to serve in some capacity in the Navy. Like you mentioned about being able to fly easier in another service, thats why I joined the Navy because I wanted to be here in THIS service..not any other.
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
You will always be "An Officer First" however, you will be graded a lot of times on your ability as an Aviator. You must remember, that you may not always be in the cockpit (I'm currently on my Dis-associated Sea Tour). While you are on your first flying tour, you will be graded first on your ability to fly and lead in the cockpit, but you will also be graded on how well you perform as a Division Officer (Lots of challenges there).
Just my thoughts....
ea6bflyr
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
nfo2b said:
I am even more grateful that I'm going to be a Naval Officer than a I am of being a Naval Aviator.
Has your prospective desinator been changed?
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
nfo2b,

In response to your first post, I have to say that all branches of the military have values that they adhere to more than others. For the Navy, our officers typically associate themselves with being naval officers first, job second. That is our culture. The Air Force's culture is different, they are more identified by their primary job than their rank. It is even more exaggerated in their aviation community such as whether they are a bomber pilot or even fighter pilot. Even more so, they distinguish themselves by the model of aircraft they fly.

For me, I tend to offer the "I'm a Naval Officer" for people that ask what I do. I start to get nervous when they ask what I do in the navy. Not too many folks can identify with what a SWO does, so I just tell em we shoot the Tomahawks. Then I get the typical, "ohhhhhh."
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
nfo2b said:
..... "Officer first, Aviator second," or other way around?

Rhetorical question: When you're shot down over enemy territory and thrown into a POW camp, are you still an aviator first, officer second?

Officer first? Aviator first? What makes you think they are not ONE in the same ... ???

I don't see anything to disagree with here: but it's one job --- not two. I don't hear anyone saying: "SWO first? ... or Officer first? Supply first? ... or Officer first? " ; do you ...... ????

Personally, I never had any trouble keeping my priorities in line --- nor should you. I took care of my men and they took care of me. Some of you guys "overthink" this stuff waaaaa-a-a-ay too much in your quest to become the "perfect" ..... you're not going to be perfect. It's ONE job that encompasses many responsibilities --- how you do it (all of it) determines your success or lack of success in the Navy. Who in the Navy is judged by only one aspect of their job performance ... ??? You've heard of "well-rounded Officer", have you not??

And to your rhetorical question??? If you're shot down over hostile territory ... while they're beating the living sh!t out of you they're not going to call you a "Yankee Officer Pirate" .... but rather a :

yankee_air_pirate.JPG
.....
14129.jpg



But then ... when people ask me what I do for a living NOW ... I tell them I'm a bus driver ... which messes with their minds ... just my $20 worth .... :)
 

jace

Registered User
Question, two actually.

When you couple Naval Aviator with Naval Officer, you eliminate that sub-set of Naval Aviators that are Marine Corps Officers? Dependent, but you would sway the argument, as you certainly know the Marine Corps Officer would vote.

Your Screen Name indicates NFO, yet you say you will become a Naval Aviator? Missed something. Which one is it?
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
A4sForever said:
... you're not going to be perfect.
Surely you jest. You've been breathing too much of that low pressure, low quality O2. It's affecting your mental state.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
jace said:
Your Screen Name indicates NFO, yet you say you will become a Naval Aviator? Missed something. Which one is it?
Official nomenclature aside, I would venture to say that most NFOs, especially TACAIR, consider themselves aviators (little a) - I know I do. That's probably all he meant.

Good times,

Brett
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Steve Wilkins said:
Surely you jest. You've been breathing too much of that low pressure, low quality O2. It's affecting your mental state.

THAT's WHAT I WAITED FOR ... ????

bigyawn2ih.jpg
..... Now where is that juicer .... ???
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
jace said:
Question....
When you couple Naval Aviator with Naval Officer, you eliminate that sub-set of Aviators that are Marine Corps Officers?

U.S. Marine Corps aviators ARE Naval Aviators .....
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
In my experience, it has usually been officer first, aviator second. At least since the FRS. More of my time, especially as a DH, has been devoted to non-flying activities. This includes leadership, management, paper work, etc....all part of being a naval officer. As OIC of a COD detachment, I did quite a bit of flying but flew less than my pilots (as it should be) due to other priorities, be it meetings, paperwork, daily crap, etc. I think it's probably tougher on tactical types being they have to know tactics plus have all the standard non-flying stuff that goes along with being an officer.
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Brett327 said:
Official nomenclature aside, I would venture to say that most NFOs, especially TACAIR, consider themselves aviators (little a) - I know I do. That's probably all he meant.

Good times,

Brett
I ride in comair, am I an aviator too?
 
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