OCS possible NPQ for history of back issues

[flyboy]

Hey all,
I am in OCS currently and I have been notified of a possible NPQ situation. I had 2 bulging discs in 2004 with the Army and put me out on a medical discharge. I get to OCS and find out that there is a disqualifying condition that would preclude me from flight. I don't have any pain whatsoever, I can complete all the evolutions in OCS, and I don't take any medication for pain. My question to a flight surgeon or another aviator that has been through the waiver process is what should I do in the case that they officially NPQ me with no waiver recommended. I have already requested via the class officer and class team about getting a waiver and they informed me that it might take awhile(upwards of 6 months to a year). I don't care how long it takes, I just want to fly. I feel that I am in just as good of physical shape as my other shipmates and want to be evaluated on my free range of motion and pain free condition instead of what an MRI says I "should" feel. Thanks for anyone who can help give some guidance. I figured AW would be a good place to start because everyone here to include doctors and staff that there's always a new class every three weeks. Who cares if one guy gets NPQ'd for pilot...
I have already reviewed the US Navy Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide and it seems like there is a lot of room for physicians discretion.

Again, thanks in advance.

 

[flyboy]

I don't think they gave me a waiver for my discs on the flight physical portion of medical. They have said that I am physically qualified to be a SWO, Intel, CEC or Supply officer but not flight without a waiver and as of right now the Flight Doc is recommending no waiver. I don't understand why they can't see that if I can complete the physical tasks of OCS which most say is the most demanding officer program, pass every PRT I've taken in 5 years, and have no limitations physically to any task the Navy wants me to do, why I would be WNR(waiver not recommended)... Hopefully one doctor will use some common sense and look at me as a person instead of an image on a MRI.

 

[flyboy]

Sheepdip...are you currently in flight status? The doctor sent my class officer an email stating that I was NPQ for pilot waiver not recommended but I could commission under another designator. I figured that if I could go through OCS, I should be healthy enough for pilot when the issue is back pain. I am going to fight whatever decision they make unless it's favorable to me. Hopefully they won't stick me in student pool forever waiting on a waiver to go through NAMI

 

[feddoc]

There are a couple of issues here. First, the medical discharge...If you got paid, at best...you may have to repay it. At worst, it might be the show stopper.
Second, if the FS has said no, that by itself may not be a show stopper, but likely is since he said WNR.
Do you recall being given an ICD-9 code....556.3 or something like that?
Where were the bulging discs?
Surgery?

It isn't impossible to get a waiver; just difficult. You will just need to be polite, persistent and polite again.

 

[flyboy]

Feddoc,
I got out on a medical from the Army in 2005 and then re-entered the Navy Reserves with a waiver for my back in 2007. I believe they took the 3k out of my bonus upon signing up for intel. The FS said that I had 2 bulging discs on L4-L5 and L5-S1. They scheduled me for an MRI and it showed a third one either below or above that stack of two. I have no pain and have been in an active or active reserve status since 2007 with no history of medications taken for pain nor seeing any doctor for pain. I am in my 4th week of OCS so my communication with medical is very slow and through the class team. I came in on a BDCP commissioning program so if I do get NPQ'd, I'll go back to intel as an officer. I haven't been given any code yet because I don't think it's official yet. The only word my class officer has is an email stating the condition is NPQ and he isn't recommending a waiver. The FS also mentioned that one of my vertebra is either moved forward or moved backward a little. I don't know if the discs are the issue or the mis-alignment of the vertebra. Seems like the US Navy Aeromedical Waiver guide gives a NCD disposition for HNP or slipped/bulging discs. In that case, I shouldn't need anything if it's not disqualifying. Thanks for your help Feddoc.

 

[feddoc]

Feddoc,
I got out on a medical from the Army in 2005 and then re-entered the Navy Reserves with a waiver for my back in 2007. I believe they took the 3k out of my bonus upon signing up for intel. The FS said that I had 2 bulging discs on L4-L5 and L5-S1. They scheduled me for an MRI and it showed a third one either below or above that stack of two. I have no pain and have been in an active or active reserve status since 2007 with no history of medications taken for pain nor seeing any doctor for pain. I am in my 4th week of OCS so my communication with medical is very slow and through the class team. I came in on a BDCP commissioning program so if I do get NPQ'd, I'll go back to intel as an officer. I haven't been given any code yet because I don't think it's official yet. The only word my class officer has is an email stating the condition is NPQ and he isn't recommending a waiver. The FS also mentioned that one of my vertebra is either moved forward or moved backward a little. I don't know if the discs are the issue or the mis-alignment of the vertebra. Seems like the US Navy Aeromedical Waiver guide gives a NCD disposition for HNP or slipped/bulging discs. In that case, I shouldn't need anything if it's not disqualifying. Thanks for your help Feddoc.

Ok, so no surgery, no pain and no meds. Those are all in your favor. See if you can open up a conversation with the FS and ask him why the WNR since it seems to you that you do qualify for a waiver. If you can get past the WNR hurdle, you chances will be greatly improved.

 

[flyboy]

You get internet access in week 4 now?

We moved upstairs after RLP and have computer access. Also we are allowed to use the computer lab across the street by the pool...

Feddoc, should I bring up the fact that HNP doesn't require a waiver and shouldn't be NPQ to the physician? I have talked with him about the issue of being NPQ and he said that he left it up to the Orthopedic Surgeon to decide. Seems like they get used to funneling people through the program, and the first sight of something that could require a waiver, they tell you NPQ WNR and send you to a different community. I tried for 4 years to get accepted for pilot and I'm not about to give it up because some doctor told me I can't. The aeromedical manual seems to think that bulging discs in asymptomatic people shown in a MRI doesn't mean anything because a lot of people have bulging discs and are asymptomatic like I am. If I do have to wait for a waiver, that's worth it to me even if I don't graduate with my class. Student Pool can't be that bad...

 

[jtmedli]

We moved upstairs after RLP and have computer access. Also we are allowed to use the computer lab across the street by the pool...

You may want to check on that. I remember the rules regarding e-mail and internet use being pretty strict. Like no email access except for on Sundays and the computers weren't supposed to be able to access anything but a few Navy websites but we all knew half of them would go elsewhere.

Just be sure that you're allowed to be on here. Don't want to be catching crap for posting on here when you shouldn't have even been on the internet, much less airwarriors. Good luck at OCS and stick it out until the end. Candi-O phase is quite exhausting and very rewarding.

 

[feddoc]

We moved upstairs after RLP and have computer access. Also we are allowed to use the computer lab across the street by the pool...

Feddoc, should I bring up the fact that HNP doesn't require a waiver and shouldn't be NPQ to the physician? I have talked with him about the issue of being NPQ and he said that he left it up to the Orthopedic Surgeon to decide. Seems like they get used to funneling people through the program, and the first sight of something that could require a waiver, they tell you NPQ WNR and send you to a different community. I tried for 4 years to get accepted for pilot and I'm not about to give it up because some doctor told me I can't. The aeromedical manual seems to think that bulging discs in asymptomatic people shown in a MRI doesn't mean anything because a lot of people have bulging discs and are asymptomatic like I am. If I do have to wait for a waiver, that's worth it to me even if I don't graduate with my class. Student Pool can't be that bad...

NO. Mention it as a question as in..." I was under the impression that HNP does not require a waiver...is that correct?". If you tell him that, he may object. The rest of what you relayed...going to the ortho for decision sounds normal. Relax.

 

[flyboy]

NO. Mention it as a question as in..." I was under the impression that HNP does not require a waiver...is that correct?". If you tell him that, he may object. The rest of what you relayed...going to the ortho for decision sounds normal. Relax.

Ok I will do that. I know it's important to be polite and non-aggressive if I want things to go in my favor. Thank you for your advice and I'll let you know how things go when I get to that bridge. I still have a little less than 2 months left of OCS so there is plenty of time for the waiver process or whatever happens to work itself out. I had one question, if I do require a waiver and the doc recommends the waiver, how long should I expect to wait for a decision from Pensacola? I've heard from a few weeks to a year so it's a little broad. Thanks again!

 

[feddoc]

Sorta depends upon the complications invovled with your waiver. I *think* yours seems fairly straightforward. My best guess is 6 or so weeks.

 

[flyboy]

So I was looking through my paperwork that I brought with me from medical records to enlistment paperwork for BDCP and my orders to OCS. I found this sheet that had the subject of :

Physical Qualification for appointment/commissioning in the United States Navy (name and ss#).

It goes on to say that :

Based on a review of available medical information the subject applicant DOES meet established physical standards

Waiver of physical standards IS APPROVED for Unrestricted Line, Restricted Line and Staff Corps. The waiver code to be assigned is HCB.

Code N3M defers to NOMI (BUMED-M3F8) for suitability for service in aviation programs.

Ensure N3M letters are uploaded into O-tools and forwarded to N36 for processing.

Does this mean that I have a waiver for my back already? I thought that my recruiter took care of all that waiver stuff prior to me coming here. I would think the Navy if they had the medical documentation(which they did) would get the waiver started before I shipped off to OCS to save money and a potential slot for someone else. Feddoc, can you give me an idea if this is my waiver for my back issue that I need or is this just to commission? Thanks!

 

[feddoc]

I think you have a waiver (for your back) from BUMED. It doesn't appear as though NOMI has issued a waiver...but, I think that should be a relatively painless process.

 

[flyboy]

Feddoc.....so does that mean that I'm good to commission as a SNA with this sheet and proceed with my flight physical in Pensacola or do I need another waiver for the flight physical part of things? It would depend on whether I graduate with my class under designator 1390 or if I would be held back waiting on a separate waiver. Thanks a lot for your information and knowledge. OCS doesn't provide the opportunities to ask many questions

 

[flyboy]

UPDATE

So I had a sit down with the FS and he said that he had spoken to the military O6 Orthopedic Surgeon and they decided that I was NPQ for bulging discs because the condition is "progressive". What they mean by progressive is that back in 2004 in the Army I had two visible bulges on two discs and now the MRI shows three. I don't know if there was there before or if this is a new one, but there hasn't been any pain associated with the supposed new bulge. I asked if there wasn't a new bulge, if that would make a difference and they informed me that it would be in a grey area and they would have to make a judgement call at that point. I'm not convinced that this condition is progressive due to the lack of pain and lack of restrictions to physical activity and movement. The waiver that I received before leaving for OCS was just a general "can this guy commission" waiver for the condition. The FS in charge of determining whether I can fly or not was very short and not understanding or positive at all which made me a little pissed off. What I don't understand is how can this doc NPQ me without considering that I don't have any pain, I'm not on any medication and there wasn't any physical contact to the affected area or any specialized tests to see whether my range of motion was inhibited. I thought at least I would get an exam on my lower back to see if there was tenderness or how flexible I was in that area. I asked him if I could get a second opinion by either another FS or a civilian doc and he told me it wouldn't do much good and the civilian doctors tend to want to be nice and give you a clean bill of health. Isn't that what I'm going for??? Someone who actually does their job instead of NPQ'ing someone without giving them a thourough exam. What does the AW community think about getting a second opinion from an outside orthopedic surgeon? Would a recommendation from the outside doctor complete the FS part of the recommendation for my waiver package or does that recommendation have to come from a military doc? I don't want to throw the towel in just yet but I also don't want to be stuck in student pool waiting for a waiver that won't come through because of a technicality. Feddoc, do you have any recommendations or comments on this one?