OCS for Enlisted Personnel

[AG7412]

OK, here is a the question?
How come current enlisted personnel need to go to OCS? While on the other hand you have Medical, Lawers and others that only go to Officer indoctrination School (6 weeks). Let's be honest here, I think it's S!!K's. I think that if you have completed 4+ years of service and got your degree during that time, that you should go to OIS.

Comments, Please....

 

[WFU2USN]

AG7412,

You do have a point, but I think they look at the cost of schooling, nature of the work, etc. for the doctors, lawyers and chaplains that go to OIS. I'm def. not saying it's fair, but 7+ years of schooling (4-year degree plus whatever) is viewed differently.

Besides OCS will be fun...hehe...no need to take the easy way out with OIS.

:-P Robin

IS2(SCW)

 

[Dave Shutter]

Dr's, Chaplains, JAG etc. are Staff Corps (restricted line) billets which means they'll never have command or serve in a combat status. They'll do their job and nothing else. The Navy is basically taking people (usually) already accomplished in a civilian field and giving them a crash course in the Navy before issuing them their desk and matching Khakis. When you go SWO, SNA, SPECWAR etc. You're entering into a combat field (un-restricted line) that will require years of follow on training (Nuke, BUD's, Aviation pipeline etc.) and you may go into combat as well as assume command someday and you're given a more demanding entry level training. My class leader was a former Chief who was going into mechanical design. He found out halfway through OCS from meeting with buddies doing OIS that he could have gone there too, but for some reason he ended up in DI land instead chasing IP's on a uniform and drilling with a rifle all day, and he had already done Boot camp twice! From what I saw the guys with prior Navy time (who were in shape!) had no problems whatsoever. They had a good time actually.

 

[AG7412]

Not commanding a ship is true, but not serving in combat is not true. Chaplains and Doctors do go to combat (fleet marine force), they maight not be in the front line but they are there.
Don't get me wrong, when I get my chance, I would do good on OCS but, I think that the system is a little outdated. Another example is the LDO (Limited Duty Officer) they go to Knife and Forlk school in P-COLA, not an entire bootcamp.

 

[Goliath112]

I agree its a little unfair. I have never been to OCS but I did go to boot camp and I don't like the idea of little mind games and other bullsh**t activities that I damn sure won't help me as an officer. (if any priors who went to OCS say that the little baby crap and games benefited them then I'll change my mind).
LDO is an interesting example, a LDO package requires the member to be an E-6 or above right? so I assume that they have leadership ability and they don't go to OCS. But they don't go URL or anything and I don't think they'll command a ship. SO maybe the logic Dave is using works there. But WHO IN THE SAM HELL can justify sending a friggin CHIEF to OCS???? I mean, that is STOO-PED. as for E5 and below well we never get any respect anyway so why argue.....

Btw Dave, as a prior army guy do you think the mind games and stuff was beneficial?

I find your lack of faith.....disturbing.. dun dun dun dunt dunna dunt dunna

Lord Vader

 

[Gator]

Having spent six years in the Marines before joining the Navy, I am certainly not looking forward to playing all the games all over.

I just think of what wise EOD Dave once said to me, "I can stand on my head for 13 weeks, if it means that I get to fly jets later on."

 

[Dave Shutter]

AG7...you're right, and I wasn't knocking them, just giving a general answer to a general question.

Goliath...The Navy is a whole different planet from where I was at, so yes, It helped me get a clue. Plus if you have a big break in service a little "smokey-bear" refresher will only help you. As for a prior Chief needing to go...Well, I've seen some who were as squared away as you could be and slept through OCS and others that were softer than jelly donuts.

 

[AG7412]

Well a least I'm not crazy to think taht OCS is outdated. Like you said (Dave)if you been to long out or are a newbie you should go. I just seem to me that current enlisted people have to jump thru hoops and loops to get a commission. Fare???

 

[AG7412]

Pap you asked: Then what separates the enlisted from the Officers? The 2 week school?

Sorry, sir. But what is the difference, I tell you. I have my degree and 10 years experience (service) and I'm an E-6. I think its outadated and now even more that more enlisted people have their degree. I don't think that I should compete with "I just graduated from school individuals" (nothing wrong with you guys BTW), but it should be a different board the one that select current active duty. So Sir, I ask you what is the difference?

 

[EODDave]

I agree to disagree.

Dave

 

[patbrown08]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but...
I was an E7 when I went through OCS, and I had plenty of leadership experience. But if you go into it thinking you will not learn anything, or that it is a waste of your time, then it probably will be. You should approach everything with the goal of learning or gaining something from it. Even with 11 years of prior service time. Also, you should plan on helping out and passing on what you have learned in the fleet to your classmates. The director of OCS told us when we were in indoc this; it is probably true that you could go straight into the officer ranks with only a little wardroom etiquette training, but think of what your classmates who have never been exposed to fleet sailors would miss out on.

Oh, and by the way, if you think that 13 weeks vice 2 weeks will earn you any more respect from the senior first classes and chiefs in your division you are sadly mistaken. OCS is just a little indoctrination into Naval leadership. Your real education will begin when you check into your first squadron or boat and that crusty old chief takes you under his wing and begins to pass on all that he has learned. I can't tell you how many hours I spent prepping my div-o to brief the Engineer and CO on our maintenance or ops plans. And I hope that there will be a Chief there waiting to do the same for me when I finally get back into the thick of things.
Pat
"If you didn't learn something new today, you just weren't paying attention"

 

[mbeaser]

I agree with both Pap and patbrown, it weeds out those that don't want to be officers enough and it teaches a lot to priors, especially about the entirely different mentality of being an officer. Also remember that not everyone has the same fleet experience. I put on E6 just after 6 years and am at my 5th command, but I have yet to be the direct supervisor of anyone because I'm always the junior E6 and when I was an E5 I was THE junior person in the command. Also, AG, I am a little confused about your competition/board comment. After ROTC and Academy take up their slots for everything we all compete for the same pool, but that is an advantage to us priors. There could be far fewer slots otherwise. If someone thought their record wouldn't hold up against fresh out of school kids in a bigger pool, why would it do better against other priors in a much smaller pool? I firmly believe being a prior is an advantage and it is part of our responsibility and priviledge to pass on our knowledge of the fleet at OCS.
Missy IT1 USN

 

[unfUSN]

Originally posted by Dave Shutter
Dr's, Chaplains, JAG etc. are Staff Corps (restricted line) billets which means they'll never have command or serve in a combat status. They'll do their job and nothing else. The Navy is basically taking people (usually) already accomplished in a civilian field and giving them a crash course in the Navy before issuing them their desk and matching Khakis. When you go SWO, SNA, SPECWAR etc. You're entering into a combat field (un-restricted line) that will require years of follow on training (Nuke, BUD's, Aviation pipeline etc.) and you may go into combat as well as assume command someday and you're given a more demanding entry level training. My class leader was a former Chief who was going into mechanical design. He found out halfway through OCS from meeting with buddies doing OIS that he could have gone there too, but for some reason he ended up in DI land instead chasing IP's on a uniform and drilling with a rifle all day, and he had already done Boot camp twice! From what I saw the guys with prior Navy time (who were in shape!) had no problems whatsoever. They had a good time actually.

Dr's, Chaplains, JAG etc. are Staff Corps and can not take Command at Sea, but they are not un-restricted line officers. URL Officers are AMDO, INTEL, CEC, Crypto. Supply weenies are staff corps and they have to go to OCS.

They don't make Dr's, Chaplains, ans JAG's go to OCS because what's the point? They have a very specific and professional job to do... can you really see and MD and JD in the sand at OCS?

ENS Payne

One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war
- Albert Einstein

 

[AG7412]

How can you think that an individual out of the college is better prepare to lead than a person that is been in for ten years. 13 weeks don't make anyone a leader.
I will go to OCS, and do good, I don't consider myself better than anyone, but I now a thing or two.
I also think that to lead you should be enlisted first. You should have to be able to know exactlly what enlisted people that you lead go thru on daily basis.

I like to thank each one of you for the comments, while a may not agree with everything, It halpes to keep things in perspective.

 

[NuSnake]

GRAMMAR!!!!!!



"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."
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