OCS criticisms

[skool2NFO]

I graduated OCS back in July, and the more time that passes, the more upset I get at how OCS did not distinguish between the officer candidate enviornment and the real world. A simple example is that at OCS you are required to wear shirt stays, tuck in shoe laces, etc. It wasn't until after I graduated that I thought to ask the question, "Do I still need to tuck in my shoe laces?" In other words, is this a Navy reg, or just another silly OCS requirement?

Some other smaller examples:

1) At OCS, you must always wear your uniform when on liberty. After graduating I questioned (and to this day I still don't know the answer) when I'm allowed to wear the uniform (if not working). For example, while on leave, can officers just wear their service khakis to lunch if they feel like it?

2) At OCS you address everyone as "sir" or "ma'am." But outside of OCS, for example, how would an Ensign address a warrant officer?

3) At OCS, you must wear the combination cover (vice the garrison cover) with the all-weather coat. Again, is this a fleet thing or an OCS thing?

Anyway, I pose those questions as some examples of an area where I feel OCS could improve its educational outcomes. (Also, in listing those examples, I invite anyone who knows the answers to post them!)

J.S.

 

[zab1001]

"I graduated OCS back in July, and the more time that passes, the more upset I get at how OCS did not distinguish between the officer candidate enviornment and the real world. A simple example is that at OCS you are required to wear shirt stays, tuck in shoe laces, etc. It wasn't until after I graduated that I thought to ask the question, "Do I still need to tuck in my shoe laces?" In other words, is this a Navy reg, or just another silly OCS requirement?"

"Tuck in your shoelaces", dude, you can if you want to. No one is going to check in the fleet. It's just an example of teaching attention to detail. Shirt stays? Well that depends. If you are one of those slim-jim skinny guys that can get away with it, don't wear 'em. For the rest of us, if you don't wanna look like trash, you wear 'em. No one is gonna bust your balls if you don't (maybe your inspecting officer at API), but tha's part of being an officer, a privilege of making it through a commissioning source; you are responsible for your own appearance. Keep in mind, the troops see you every day and the troops talk. Why not take the extra 5 mintues and look right?


"1) At OCS, you must always wear your uniform when on liberty. After graduating I questioned (and to this day I still don't know the answer) when I'm allowed to wear the uniform (if not working). For example, while on leave, can officers just wear their service khakis to lunch if they feel like it?"

If you feel like it? Why would you want to wear khakis outside of work? Did you forget to do your laundry? If you have a civilian-world activity that you suspect you might need/want to wear your uniform to it will probably be prescribed for you (i.e. military wedding or a home town recruiting appearance at a high school: dress blues or summer whites). If you are having a family reunion and want to play dress up, wear blues or summer whites. Those are really the only non-working times I can think of that you might wear a uniform when not working. Listen to your gut.

"2) At OCS you address everyone as "sir" or "ma'am." But outside of OCS, for example, how would an Ensign address a warrant officer?"

"Warrant Officer". He's a Warrant.

"3) At OCS, you must wear the combination cover (vice the garrison cover) with the all-weather coat. Again, is this a fleet thing or an OCS thing?"

Never worn the khaki combo. Saw it worn once. A sub guy O-2 came over to my squadron to talk with our Intel shop. We made fun of him. All weather coat? Mine is still in the original bag.

"Anyway, I pose those questions as some examples of an area where I feel OCS could improve its educational outcomes. (Also, in listing those examples, I invite anyone who knows the answers to post them!)"

This is all stuff you will pick up as you go. You will be told what the uniform of the day is 99% of the time. There's no way you can teach someone every single possible scenario. Look around and watch what senior guys are doing. Emulate. Repeat. Good luck!

 

[Road Program]

What do you call a warrant officer?

Bob, Zach, Jill, whatever.

Why on EARTH would you want to wear a uniform if you didn't have to? I can't possibly fathom this. I don't even keep my uniforms at home because I feel like they bring work home to me. When I go home, I leave the job at work.

Wearing the khaki combo cover...good way to sight pretentious SWOs and sub guys. They are impervious to insults much in the same way Stever Erkel is impervious to insults.

What the hell is the all-weather coat? Is that the long rain coat? Exactly how dorky do you want to look? If the answer is "very" then wear it. You'll look just like every other E-2 walking to the exchange for a fun night of Taco Bell and arcades.

That being said, not everything they do at OCS is the way it's done in the fleet. A lot of OCS is seeing if you can follow directions, including the wearing of whatever the prescribed uniform is and taking care of it. The thinking there is that if you can't do these simple things, then how can you do more complicated things. Part of the test is actually doing things in a different way than the fleet. After you've been commissioned for a while and start asking the very questions you've just posed, you begin to see these answers for yourself.

Try not to sweat the small stuff. You'll figure it out eventually. Just do yourself a favor and toss your khaki pancake for the combo cover and the long rain coat.

 

[webmaster]

When in doubt, wear your bag!!! Case in point, you have a school or multi-day briefing to go to, OPS begrudgingly gave you the room numer and time, but getting anything else out of them was just too much to ask. Hmm, what uniform do I wear to it? The bag it is!! You get there, and find that you are the only guy in your flight suit. Everyone else will be uncomfortable in their khakis, and wished THEY would have thought to have worn the flight suit, and you can get in synq with everyone else on the following day, unless of course they are non aviators, then you can just keep wearing the bag and make them jealous.

The big point is, take pride in your uniform, don't look like the JO that used an rock to iron their uniform with, no, don't iron your flight suit, but keep it squared away. Shirt stays help to keep your khakis looking good for when you have to wear them. Go the extra mile and look good in the uniform, as zab said, the sailors (and superiors) notice, don't be "mr sh!t brick"...

When in doubt ask.

BTW... new Navy Uniform regs just came out, you can wear a BLACK or NAVY BLUE backpack over your left shoulder now in your working uniforms. In utilities (I would imagine flight suit falls under this) you can wear it over both shoulders. I will dig up the message and post it later.

 

[zab1001]

"When in doubt, wear your bag!!!"

Uh, except in town for lunch. Definitely do not do that.

Not that I would know anything about that or anything.

(cough, cough)

 

[skool2NFO]

wearing the uniform outside of work

Let me clarify the question about the uniform. Simply put, are officers allowed to wear the uniform outside of work? It seems that the answer is yes. Regarding why someone would do that, I can give a specific example: I was going to pay a visit to my old high school for homecoming, where I remained in close touch with many teachers and classmates. I've been in touch with them through e-mail recently, and many asked for me to come in uniform. So yes, I'd effectively be playing "dress up." But you know how people are when it comes to Navy uniforms.

In regards to the damn rain coat, it's actually pretty nice--simple, light, and will keep you from getting wet (if you're in khakis).

Also, here's an excerpt from the Navy newsstand regarding backpacks: "One of the changes effective immediately will be the authorized wear of civilian bags while in uniform. This includes briefcases, gym bags, backpacks, suitcases and garment bags. The specific guidance on wear and appearance for each is outlined in NAVADMIN 209/04." The link is http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=15108

 

[zab1001]

"Let me clarify the question about the uniform. Simply put, are officers allowed to wear the uniform outside of work? It seems that the answer is yes. Regarding why someone would do that, I can give a specific example: I was going to pay a visit to my old high school for homecoming, where I remained in close touch with many teachers and classmates. I've been in touch with them through e-mail recently, and many asked for me to come in uniform. So yes, I'd effectively be playing "dress up." But you know how people are when it comes to Navy uniforms."

SDBs or Summer Whites.

"In regards to the damn rain coat, it's actually pretty nice--simple, light, and will keep you from getting wet (if you're in khakis)."

Thats a judgement call on your part. If you are anywhere, in khakis, that it will rain, you can wear it, but in aviation land prepare for the heckles. Most guys will either wear the leather jacket (which will not get ruined if you just wipe it down once you get in the clear) or just get wet. That huge black "bell" look is asking for trouble. I'd rather get wet, but as the Webmaster knows, I'm all about looking good.

 

[Road Program]

We can carry a bag now?! Dude, that's awesome! I'm not sure how I feel about fouling a uniform with a bag, but you better believe I'll take advantage of it.

 

[wink]

You guys were much too informative and kind to skool2NFO. Give me a break. Virtually nothing in OCS is like the real Navy. It isn't ment to be!! OCS is a training evironment. More precisely it is an indoctrination program, shock indoc. I went to AOCS in 1979. I talked to AOCS guys from the mid '60s and the program was nearly identical. The only substantial changes occured when OCS and AOCS combined down in Pcola. The combined program is easier then AOCS but more difficult then the old Newport OCS. If skool2NFO is having difficulty knowing how to act and what to wear in API he should be happy he wasn't sent to a deployed DDG as SWO DIV O.

 

[SWOdogJon]

Let's see....
I am a former sub guy for five years, and a current SWO and I haven't seen anybody in either community (ever) wear the combination cover. So obviously, that tosses the "pretentious SWOs and SUB guys" out of the picture. A little bit of advice, dude. RELAX. No one in the Navy is as big of a goober as some of the people you encountered at OCS (or after).

 

[iluvpoopies]

I have seen Chops and CECs wear khaki pancakes. At least the CEC had the excuse of "I lost my garrison cover bc I haven't worn khakis for 3 yrs" I don't know why some Chops seem to like it.

At least it's always good for a laugh.

 

[Gritty]

Dumb newbie question...

Why would CEC not wear khakis??

 

[RickyDT34]

Dumb newbie question...

Why would CEC not wear khakis??

I think that they would normally wear cami's.

 

[wink]

CEC officers serving in Seabee units wear Cammies. Not all CEC officers are in Seabee units. They serve in many other billets.

 

[RickyDT34]

CEC officers serving in Seabee units wear Cammies. Not all CEC officers are in Seabee units. They serve in many other billets.

Do they have to be in a SeaBee Battalion to earn their combat warfare pin? As a CEC officer must you earn a warfare pin like SWO or Sub guys? Do AMDO guys earn any type of warfare pin? Just sittin' here wondering.