O4 List

[Spekkio]

Vacancies aren't just based on discrete billet fills (13XX billets for aviation) - a large number of vancancies are also based on non-discrete coded bilets that can be filled by any URL (1050-coded) or any officer (1000-coded). Of note - though 1000-coded billets can be filled by any officer, URL is the only community that gets credit for these billets.

I am a bit confused by the connection between promotions to say, a sub O-4 and a pilot O-4.

Are you saying that if we fail to screen the next career milestone (XO for subs, DH for aviators), then we go into a general category which selects O-4s and that a person who has done a DH tour stands a better chance of screening for O-4 than someone who hasn't? Whereas if the person does screen the next career milestone, they will promote based on that designators' needs?

 

[BigRed389]

Is retention a significant factor?

When 1110 retention was terrible (2009) I got a PERS-41 brief that told us O-4 selection was 94%.

I'd imagine that 13XX's MSR keeping folks in close to O-4 selection boards has to equal better retention than some other communities.

 

[nittany03]

So we're giving people a DH bonus to keep them in so they can be shot in the head at the O-4 board. Brilliant!

 

[ProsNest1]

But 13XXs don't get promoted from filling 1050 or 1000 coded billets.....if that were true, we'd all have made Commander.

Not sure I follow. You are correct that discrete billets are what you will normally fill when first promoting to O-4. However, it is projected billet vacancies (either through separations or promotions out) that set the overall number for promotions authorized.

 

[ProsNest1]

I am a bit confused by the connection between promotions to say, a sub O-4 and a pilot O-4.

Are you saying that if we fail to screen the next career milestone (XO for subs, DH for aviators), then we go into a general category which selects O-4s and that a person who has done a DH tour stands a better chance of screening for O-4 than someone who hasn't? Whereas if the person does screen the next career milestone, they will promote based on that designators' needs?

Aviation selects DHs in an admin board that follows the statutory O-4 board. The statutory URL board selects from the entire pool of eligible (in zone) URL O-3s.

 

[ProsNest1]

Is retention a significant factor?

When 1110 retention was terrible (2009) I got a PERS-41 brief that told us O-4 selection was 94%.

I'd imagine that 13XX's MSR keeping folks in close to O-4 selection boards has to equal better retention than some other communities.

Retention does matter. Our MSR and ACCP is what brings so many aviators to the O-4 board.

 

[ProsNest1]

So we're giving people a DH bonus to keep them in so they can be shot in the head at the O-4 board. Brilliant!

Again - different boards. We need to retain folks for DH (an admin process run by PERS-43 and the NAE) and ACCP is our primary means of that retention. The statutory O-4 board is not run by PERS-43 or the NAE. The goal of the stat board is to select the "best and most qualified" O-3s to promote at the opportunity given by N1. In the past, we selected O-4s in large enough numbers that we easily covered down on DH requirement - with a good amount of selectivity. However, as numbers get smaller there is a risk that the stat board becomes your de facto DH board. Not there yet. ACCP becomes even more important as we need higher retention going into the O-4 board to ensure we meet DH requirements on the back end.

 

[Spekkio]

Aviation selects DHs in an admin board that follows the statutory O-4 board. The statutory URL board selects from the entire pool of eligible (in zone) URL O-3s.

I understand that there are separate boards for career milestones and promotion in grade, but it sounds like you're speaking as if they don't depend on each other when you said that vacancies aren't filled by designators/billets. I have never heard of someone selecting for the next career milestone, but not selecting at the statutory board. Intuitively, making the selection independent of community could lead to a surplus of a grade in one community and a shortfall in another. Hence my question if you are put into a separate general pile if you are no longer going to screen for the next career milestone.

 

[ProsNest1]

No. All IZ URL O-3s will screen for O-4 together regardless of previous or pending community milestone boards. Apologies if not clear earlier. PM me if you would like a contact number to discuss further.

 

[azguy]

I understand that there are separate boards for career milestones and promotion in grade, but it sounds like you're speaking as if they don't depend on each other when you said that vacancies aren't filled by designators/billets. I have never heard of someone selecting for the next career milestone, but not selecting at the statutory board. Intuitively, making the selection independent of community could lead to a surplus of a grade in one community and a shortfall in another. Hence my question if you are put into a separate general pile if you are no longer going to screen for the next career milestone.

SWO/Subs is different than aviation because we always go from administrative board to statutory board. DH screen automatically gets you O4, CO/XO screen gets you O5 (99% of the time). That's why you and I don't know anyone who has been stuck in that 'separate pile' as you put it.

 

[wlawr005]

I understand that there are separate boards for career milestones and promotion in grade, but it sounds like you're speaking as if they don't depend on each other when you said that vacancies aren't filled by designators/billets. I have never heard of someone selecting for the next career milestone, but not selecting at the statutory board. Intuitively, making the selection independent of community could lead to a surplus of a grade in one community and a shortfall in another. Hence my question if you are put into a separate general pile if you are no longer going to screen for the next career milestone.

Aviators select O4 at a statutory board, then those selects are further screened for DH at an administrative board. Aviator O4s that don't make DH either apply for continuation to retirement, go reserves, or get out.

 

[Pags]

Again - different boards. We need to retain folks for DH (an admin process run by PERS-43 and the NAE) and ACCP is our primary means of that retention. The statutory O-4 board is not run by PERS-43 or the NAE. The goal of the stat board is to select the "best and most qualified" O-3s to promote at the opportunity given by N1. In the past, we selected O-4s in large enough numbers that we easily covered down on DH requirement - with a good amount of selectivity. However, as numbers get smaller there is a risk that the stat board becomes your de facto DH board. Not there yet. ACCP becomes even more important as we need higher retention going into the O-4 board to ensure we meet DH requirements on the back end.

Correct me if I'm wrong @AOCM, but the NAE can't input it's values (billets, quals, experience) on to the statutory board, correct? Instead "best and most qualified" is determined largely by FITREP and overarching Big Navy values (performance at sea)?

 

[BigRed389]

SWO/Subs is different than aviation because we always go from administrative board to statutory board. DH screen automatically gets you O4, CO/XO screen gets you O5 (99% of the time). That's why you and I don't know anyone who has been stuck in that 'separate pile' as you put it.

No it doesn't.

Was pretty much true at one time, but is no longer the case. I'm also curious how things will go when the big lump of extra O-1s start coming up for O-4.

 

[azguy]

No it doesn't.

Nothing is for sure, but for SWO, most of the people weeded out for O4 are 'terminal LTs' who decided not to attend DH school and stay on shore duty, got DFC'd as a DH, legal issues, etc. The latest 'road show' guidance is that "due course" DHs have nothing to worry about, but it is more important now to ensure there is very specific wording in your FITREP (e.g. CO Afloat in the milestone rec box).

 

[bert]

Aviators select O4 at a statutory board, then those selects are further screened for DH at an administrative board. Aviator O4s that don't make DH either apply for continuation to retirement, go reserves, or get out.

No.

Aviators who make O-4 but don't screen for DH can continue to serve as 1310s, alternating sea/shore billets. They go up for CDR with their year group as normal, and if (meaning "when," in reality) they 2xFOS then they go for continuation, which is extremely close to automatic right now and has been for a long time.

The choice of jobs (on the sea side, at least) will suck, but there are still some good shore duties out there.