If it's a difference in FITREP bullets, I wonder what career implications there will be for FRS students in the TACAIR world that are regularly making O-3 well before they make the fleet. That's a lot of unobserved FITREPS.
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O-4 List out (last year)
- Thread starter B.D. Drummond
- Start date
But we don't need to move to the "act of congress" level. Congress tells us how many O-4's we can have. That means Pers should be able to figure out what community needs are and then dole out the appropriate number of slots for each designator. Thus allowing each community to actually meet their needs in a fair manner. Instead of the current "blind darts" approach.
I hope the guys who are up for shore tour orders or in the window for a disassociated sea tour go after what they truly want. BUPERS has been feeding you crap for years, and I feel bad for the people who got burnt in this most recent board. A few observations:
1. IAs were supposed to be looked upon favorably - I think boards have realized that they are a signal of weakness. I know of a few who have come back from them and been denied the promised follow on orders.
2. A couple years ago BUPERS made a big push to draw more talented fleet #1s to the TRACOM. They assured squadron COs and their JOs about to roll that the stigma of flying the orange and white was a thing of the past. Clearly that hasn't been the case.
3. You have to do a competitive disassociated sea tour and break out there too. I think there are a lot of people doing boat tours right now who are learning quickly that breaking-out for a boat job isn't as easy at it should be and that there is a tremendous sacrifice involved just to play the game in hopes of earning good paperwork.
4. JPME ahead of timeline and a masters degree make a difference. In reality the bump is probably so minimal that it isn't even worth your time.
If I were a senior JO in the fleet or on my first shore tour right now, I'd do whatever the heck I wanted. No way would I want to find my way into a competitive boat tour, do JPME, or volunteer for any type of "career enhancing" opportunity unless I really wanted to do it. At least if I FOSx2 I'd have a happy 10 years of naval service under my belt instead of jumping thru invisible hoops to try to impress some board that my dedication to computer-based online training and breaking my back to do an unsavory boat/staff job somehow made me a better candidate than the guy sitting next to me.
A lot of people have made the claim that "this is the year that BUPERS will realize that they've pushed us too far". I think we will hit that point, but it is probably more like 2-3 years down the road. I think the fallout from this board is that a lot of squadron front offices will get some lame ass brief from BUPERS about how their JOs need to sign on for a bunch of pain tours and get cracking on those fake masters - and this madness will get even worse. Do you really think next year's boards are going to be any different? Is there any assurance that BUPERS could give you that next year everything will be fixed?
Twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the Navy, make sure it is something you can both be proud of - and nothing more.
1. IAs were supposed to be looked upon favorably - I think boards have realized that they are a signal of weakness. I know of a few who have come back from them and been denied the promised follow on orders.
2. A couple years ago BUPERS made a big push to draw more talented fleet #1s to the TRACOM. They assured squadron COs and their JOs about to roll that the stigma of flying the orange and white was a thing of the past. Clearly that hasn't been the case.
3. You have to do a competitive disassociated sea tour and break out there too. I think there are a lot of people doing boat tours right now who are learning quickly that breaking-out for a boat job isn't as easy at it should be and that there is a tremendous sacrifice involved just to play the game in hopes of earning good paperwork.
4. JPME ahead of timeline and a masters degree make a difference. In reality the bump is probably so minimal that it isn't even worth your time.
If I were a senior JO in the fleet or on my first shore tour right now, I'd do whatever the heck I wanted. No way would I want to find my way into a competitive boat tour, do JPME, or volunteer for any type of "career enhancing" opportunity unless I really wanted to do it. At least if I FOSx2 I'd have a happy 10 years of naval service under my belt instead of jumping thru invisible hoops to try to impress some board that my dedication to computer-based online training and breaking my back to do an unsavory boat/staff job somehow made me a better candidate than the guy sitting next to me.
A lot of people have made the claim that "this is the year that BUPERS will realize that they've pushed us too far". I think we will hit that point, but it is probably more like 2-3 years down the road. I think the fallout from this board is that a lot of squadron front offices will get some lame ass brief from BUPERS about how their JOs need to sign on for a bunch of pain tours and get cracking on those fake masters - and this madness will get even worse. Do you really think next year's boards are going to be any different? Is there any assurance that BUPERS could give you that next year everything will be fixed?
Twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the Navy, make sure it is something you can both be proud of - and nothing more.
Considering all you did was spend 4 years learning to expertly operate one of the deadlist machines on the face of the planet...your FITREP will pale in comparison to LTJG SWO who wrote six enlisted evals, signed seven leave chits, and spot checked his division's 3M program twice a month.
At this rate, there won't be a TACAIR when we're up for O-4.
At this rate, there won't be a TACAIR when we're up for O-4.
You know, now that I think of it...we could kill two birds with one stone. Man all the DH billets in the squadron with O-3s.
1) They would break out better against the SWOs.
2) JOPA would rule the world.
Naval Aviation would enter the Pax JOPA...an era of unlimited flight time, no SAPR training, and perpetual awesomeness.
DRC83
New Member
Something to consider...the last couple years were when the 8 year commitment guys starting hitting the o4 boards. In thre past, the 7 year guys that were getting out could extend on their shore tour and would get out before being eligible for a screen. Now the 8 year guys are all being forced to do a disassociated sea tour and by default will be part of the screening group. So naturally one would think the percentages will go down if the billets remain the same.
The issue at hand...is there are breakout performers who just got passed over. And it's just more than a handful spread out for all the communities. This will not end well. The navy is delusional if they think aviator retention won't be a problem if companies like AA and UPS are even starting to hire again. I for one am getting out...but then again...I had made my decision before this nonsense.
I'd love to see a break down of how many of those that made O-4 have taken the bonus. That could be some scary shit (and I suspect is some scary shit for those in PERS-43).
http://www.airwarriors.com/community/index.php?threads/fy-15-adhsb.41923/page-2#post-783709
Sounds pretty dire to me.
Sounds pretty dire to me.
NECC is pretty much in its own little world...which, post-GWOT, will probably be a shrinking one.
We're building new ships, subs, and planes, and AFAIK we're not cutting surface ship, sub or aircraft units other than those that are aged out. Compared to what the Army and Marines are going through, Navy's got it good.
Designator shouldn't matter to the board. Board composition should be a mix of designators. As Spekkio pointed out already, you have a system that ranks people who are in different phases of their Navy careers. Some are pre-DH (aviation), others (SWO/Sub) have already done DH tours. That's not exactly fair.
At least part of the reason for the mixing that comes up in URL is because there are billets that are "general URL fills." RL/Staff has the luxury of being more specialized...you won't see a JAG get thrown into a job at NAVFAC, and you won't see a Supply officer take over a shipyard. It's even messy in just the operational billets...SWOs and aviators rotate who commands some ships. Same goes up through CSGs, some CTFs, etc. SWOs and submariners trade off other billets. URL guys even swap with RL for some billets, especially at higher ranks. Which makes projections a little more complicated than just individual community milestones. I believe it would be doable, but it would also probably make a mess here and there during the transition. If there are more than just a handful of EP across the board aviators being left after the cut, the system is broken. I promise you, a 90+% selection rate for 1110/20 means there are some not so hot-runners making the cut.
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11XX LT's (SWO/Sub/SEAL/EOD) who screened 90%+ for this board have all hit their service requirements years ago and decided to stay in; they are all "in it to win it" at this point. They have stayed "due course" and hit all the wickets they were supposed to. Aviators on the other hand are still stuck in their MSR, maybe are planning to get out anyway and haven't done what they need to do to be picked for O-4 - which begs the question, how do you differentiate between the career minded LT and the guy who is getting ready to punch and be a civilian?
Another question, based on a very small slice on aviators I've worked with: do pilots and NFOs "game" their FITREP rankings too much? If half of the JOs leave their fleet tour with an EP, then an EP isn't special anymore. What are aviator COs doing to tell the board who to pick and who to throw by the wayside?
Another question, based on a very small slice on aviators I've worked with: do pilots and NFOs "game" their FITREP rankings too much? If half of the JOs leave their fleet tour with an EP, then an EP isn't special anymore. What are aviator COs doing to tell the board who to pick and who to throw by the wayside?
'Designator blind' in the sense that the board is selecting LCDRs URL-wide. The statutory board doesn't consider how many O4s any particular community needs. Yes, in some cases it's comparing apples to oranges. I think there may be some truth to your point about how each community writes FITREPs - playing with timing to get everyone an EP can come back to screw those guys. Still, the disparity in these results is much more about MSR lengths across communities and flight school timelines not allowing pilots to get to their DH tours prior to the O4 look.
I dunno man I think it's more like 25% of people leaving with an EP.
I think what's rattled a lot of people about this particular board is that aviators who have hit all the wickets and more didn't make the cut. People with multiple EPs, boat tours, admiral's aides- nope.
I know several people who were served up as the #1 guy in their unit and they got smacked down.
The big question is the disparity between us and the water wing guys- something is not translating: how is it that #1 squadron aviators are being looked over, but basically any SWO and submariner breathing and with a pulse got picked up?
Well shit, just give 'em all command now....
False.
To clarify, it's not an indictment on those Pilots/FOs who are getting out. It's just obvious that they probably aren't taking the hard jobs and doing whatever you guys are supposed to do to stay "due course."
You might want to spend some time in the 1610. If there is a way for JO's to "game" their FITREP ( and, their ranking), I'd love to know about it. I can promise you, Aviation CO's are writing FITREP's (as they always have) in a manner that leaves no doubt as to who their brightest & best are for selection boards. Is there something more nefarious going on here between communities? Don't know. But I don't think the problem is with the paper being written on these particular YG's.