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NWA and DELTA
- Thread starter HAL Pilot
- Start date
luckechance
Registered User
bad, worse, abysmal
Tough to tell --- what areas were you interested in for us to make "guesstimates" on, anyway???DanMav1156 said:
For example: Who would have EVER said UAL could go Chapter 11??? And 20 years ago --- Delta and NWA were gold plated airlines .... DAL was always a "class act" and a great place to work ... passengers loved Delta. NWA paid for EVERYTHING in cash and had mega-investments in Japan. If you could get hired --- you were probably good for a career.
heard yesterday that the pilots were cleaning out their lockers in preparation ... I hope I don't lose my skymiles , I'm so close to getting a free ticket!
I think it will be bad for a couple more years and improve. The analysts and everyone (except management) are saying that there is not really anymore to take from the employees. The pilot groups are finally saying enough too. Ticket prices are finally starting to rise (10% average over the last 12 months.)
Oil prices will stabilize, airline ticket prices will rise and the airlines will be profitable for a while. At that time pay will go up and work rules will get better. The pensions are gone though I don't think they will be back.
Than after 10 years the bubble will burst again and we will start the cycle over again....
Oil prices will stabilize, airline ticket prices will rise and the airlines will be profitable for a while. At that time pay will go up and work rules will get better. The pensions are gone though I don't think they will be back.
Than after 10 years the bubble will burst again and we will start the cycle over again....
Well I guess what I was looking for was similar to what HAL wrote... Where is the airline industry headed in your guys' opinions? Is it the "Jet Blue" non-union model that is going to be the future (even though they just posted their first qtrly loss)?
Are RJ's the wave of the future or massive aircraft like the new Airbus or Boeing?
Anything really, I'm just interested in the subject, airlines are a very difficult business model to run but enjoyable to study...
Are RJ's the wave of the future or massive aircraft like the new Airbus or Boeing?
Anything really, I'm just interested in the subject, airlines are a very difficult business model to run but enjoyable to study...
If there is a change, it will probably be toward more unionization. The biggest non-union regional, Sky West, is pretty close to unionizing. There are very few non-union pilot or airline employee groups out there. After the recent round of bankruptcies and the shafting employees took, I think there will be even less. The unionized groups had a say in the process. While unable to stop the rapes, they at least got some lube when compared to the non-union groups.DanMav1156 said:
Jet Blue pilots work for low wages compared to others flying the same equipment. Their work rules and pay are set by management. If management starts eroding these as they lose money, that will probably lead to unionization there. Many mainline (major) pilots are already upset that Jet Blue is not unionized. When Jet Blue management set the pay rates for the E-190 aircraft they are getting, they were set at regional pay levels. The pilots could do nothing about it since management did not have to agree to a contract with the non-existent union.
As far as RJs, what is an RJ? Many will say the newer 90 seat jets (like the E-190) are really mainline aircraft. They are replacements for DC-9s and earlier (smaller) 737s carrying similar numbers of seats. Even the 70 seat RJs are considered mainline by some as they replaced the Fokkers at AA and US Airways.
35 & 50 seat RJs are very expensive aircraft to operate for the revenue they bring in. The only way they make money is because major airlines pay the regionals on a "fee for departure" basis. Whether the plane is empty or full, the regional get the same money and its a guaranteed profit. 70 seat RJs are more economical but not by much. It isn't until you get to the 90 seat E-190 type that they become economical. This is why Independence Air failed. They had no contracts to feed majors.
The massive aircraft like the 747 & A-380 are for heavily traveled markets. Very economical to operate if you have the customer base traveling the route to keep the load factor up. You need a mix of sizes. The new 787 carries about the same number of pax as the 767.
The Dumbing Down of the Airlines ... ???
Northwest Pilots approve concessionary contract to run for the next 6 years .... with deep paycuts and work-rule give-backs .... now what for Delta pilots ???
RESTRUCTURING TENTATIVE AGREEMENT RATIFIED (5/03/06)
Official results of the Restructuring Tentative Agreement ballot were received this morning. Northwest pilots voted to ratify the Restructuring Tentative Agreement by a margin of 63.42% (2888) voting in favor, vs. 36.58% (1666) voting against. 4554 out of
4801 eligible pilots voted (94.86%) -- a HUGE percentage compared with previous elections.
Over 700 NWA pilots are still on furlough .....
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]Friday May 19, 6:00 PM EDT[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] MINNEAPOLIS (AP)--Taking it one union at a time, Northwest Airlines Corp. (NWACQ) has been nailing down the labor concessions it needs to cut costs and emerge from bankruptcy. But big challenges, including soaring fuel costs, still dog the nation's fourth-largest carrier.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] Northwest and its union representing baggage handlers and ramp workers reached a tentative agreement early Friday, hours before a bankruptcy judge in New York was to consider whether to allow Northwest to throw out the union contract and impose its own terms. Judge Allan Gropper postponed his decision until next month, pending ratification of the deal.
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] If baggage handlers accept the deal, Northwest stands to be that much closer to a $1.4 billion target for labor concessions. Before heading into bankruptcy, Northwest's labor costs were among the highest in the industry.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]"They now have the potential to be the lowest cost-labor carrier," said Robert Mann, airline consultant at R.W. Mann & Co. in Port Washington, N.Y., of the labor negotiations.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] Mann and other analysts said the labor agreements are important steps as Northwest tries to climb out of bankruptcy. Now, he said, the carrier has to upgrade its fleet to minimize older fuel-guzzling aircraft like DC-9s and DC- 10s. The carrier is also renegotiating more favorable leases in bankruptcy. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]Mann projected Northwest emerging from bankruptcy as early as next spring.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] Michael Boyd, an airline consultant and president of the Boyd Group in Evergreen, Colo., said Northwest has a clear plan of where it wants to be, and what it needs to do to come out of bankruptcy.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] "Success is not just getting pay cuts, success is getting more revenue through the door. Northwest is highly focused on that," he said. "I think they'll be out of bankruptcy easily within a year, and going forward, they are going to be a ferocious competitor."
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] The IAM leadership has recommended ratification of the tentative deal, but only because the alternative was worse, said Bobby De Pace, president of District 143 of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]"The people are voting for their jobs, they aren't voting for any improvements or anything, they're voting to keep their jobs," he said. "It's just a real sad day."
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] Northwest filed for bankruptcy in September. Bankruptcy law allows companies to reject their union contracts with a judge's permission - a threat that prompted deals with other unions. Pilots approved a new contract earlier this month, and flight attendants are voting through June 6 on pay cuts. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] (END) Dow Jones Newswires
05-19-06 1800ET
Copyright (c) 2006 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]
UPDATE: Delta Pilots Ratify Contract That Cuts $280M More In Costs
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]Wednesday May 31, 3:25 PM EDT[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] SAN FRANCISCO (Dow Jones) -- A majority of Delta Air Lines' unionized pilots ratified a new contract with the bankrupt carrier that will cut another $280 million a year in costs, the Air Line Pilots Association said Wednesday.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] While the pact must still be approved by the court overseeing the airline's turnaround, 61% of the voting pilots approved the contract. Some 95% of eligible pilots voted on the matter. That's a higher margin than the previous cost- cutting contract's vote of 58% for and 42% against in December.
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] There are more than 5,900 pilots in the union, and they are Delta's only unionized work group. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]The contract, which takes effect June 1 and runs through Dec. 31, 2009, was tentatively approved by the Air Line Pilots Association Delta leadership in April.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] One potential hurdle for the pilots and the airline is the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.'s objection to the deal, which will give the union claims against the airline that the PBGC wants in the event the pension plans are terminated. The company-funded agency backstops defined-benefit retirement plans for distressed companies.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] Bulletin-board traded shares of Delta Air Lines (DALRQ) rose 6.5% to 66 cents in Wednesday trading.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] Delta filed for bankruptcy in Sept. 14, 2005, the same day as Northwest Airlines (NWACQ) .
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] Delta's red ink is significant. The Atlanta-based airline reported a net loss of $2.07 billion in the first quarter of this year, wider than the $1.07 billion in the year-ago period, while revenue rose modestly.
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif] (END) Dow Jones Newswires
05-31-06 1525ET
Copyright (c) 2006 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.[/FONT]
Predicting the airline industry would give Merlin a migrane. Who would have believed back in the mid 70s that Braniff,Eastern, and PanAm would be gone; Continental would've been through two bankruptcies,US Air is in its second,I believe, Delta,and Northwest are in Chapter 11 with American just holding on. National and Norteast absorbed and gone with the one time darling Peoples Express a distant memory along with New York Air, Air Forida et al.
Right now the overnight express airlines seem to be doing alright but that sure ain't etched in stone.
If I were an 0-3 thinking of making the leap I'd find a reserve slot and get my retirement; I think company funded pension funds are going the way of the DC-3. That's if you land with an airline that's still around when you turn 60, or whatever the future retirement age will be.
Right now the overnight express airlines seem to be doing alright but that sure ain't etched in stone.
If I were an 0-3 thinking of making the leap I'd find a reserve slot and get my retirement; I think company funded pension funds are going the way of the DC-3. That's if you land with an airline that's still around when you turn 60, or whatever the future retirement age will be.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
I'm just hoping things settle out a little and hiring goes up by 2012. Who knows what will happen between now and then. Any guesses?
Alright??? A little better than alright! Do some research and then post!
MEMPHIS, Tenn., March 22, 2006; FedEx Express Segment
For the third quarter, the FedEx Express segment reported:
Revenue of $5.34 billion, up 9% from last year's $4.92 billion
Operating income of $446 million, up 31% from $340 million a year ago
Operating margin of 8.4%, up from 6.9% the previous year
FedEx Express operating margin improved significantly year over year, benefiting from solid growth in FedEx International Priority (IP) and U.S. Overnight revenue, continuing yield management actions and improved productivity.
FedEx IP revenue grew 12% for the quarter. IP average daily package volume grew 10%, due to strong growth in Asia and Europe and continuing growth in U.S. export. IP revenue per package grew 2% due to higher fuel surcharges and improved regional mix, partially offset by currency exchange rate impacts. U.S. domestic revenue per package increased 8%, while U.S. domestic volume was down 3% resulting from yield management actions in lower-yielding U.S. deferred services. The increase in U.S. domestic revenue per package was mainly driven by higher fuel surcharges, the January 2006 price increases and yield management actions.
FedEx Express will begin utilizing three new flight frequencies into China later this month. This will provide the company a total of 26 weekly flights to China, the most of any U.S.-based cargo carrier.
And that is just the airline: FEDEX Corp is growing out of control too... And UPS is basically tracking similar! Thinking of getting out? Network, Network, Network your way to the world of CARGO! Boxes don't b1tch and the pay is good too!