NSS changes as of 04AUG08

[Beans]

Holy smokes... All the information we need to not have to guess about this stuff is public. See the link below:

CNATRA Instructions

These are all clearly defined in the CNATRAINST 1542 series. Primary MPTS is 1542.140C. Adv Helo MPTS is 1542.156A. They're all clearly labeled, and all the information as to course flow, the "attrition flowchart," and the means by which one might be attrited is in plain english.

By the way, IPC means "Initial Progress Check."

edit: Mr. Boyd beat me to it.

 

[squorch2]

Not that it really matters, but the lowest NSS that winged that I heard of (from the guy himself, mind you) was 22.

Yes, this was helo advanced.

 

[Gatordev]

Finishing Primary with a sub-35 NSS is easy. The SNA only meets MIF at the end of block and not before. They would be a textbook definition of a bottom feeder. They never fail/Unsat a flight but just scrape by meeting the required proficiency just in time. This scenario generates a sub-35 NSS every time. MPTS provides a means to highlight and subsequently attrite these students. An OPS directed IPC and subsequent command directed FPC can be given for this type of performance. It is there in the fine print if you look. Unfortunately, these are few and far between due to the fact that sufficient documention on the ATFs and proper justification for normal breaks in training become an issue when the CO and Commodore forward their recomendation to CNATRA. Very often these type of students are identified too late and the proper paperwork can't be put together that withstands the legal filter at the CNATRA level. Read this as the guy who would have to defend against subsequent legal action by a student's lawyer. So you forget and put the word good when you grade it a three? Every gradesheet is scrutinized and more students are recycled through training as a result of improper ATFs and inadequate documentation.

Keep in mind also that the goal is to attrite as soon as possible. Attriting a stud in the 26th week of a 27 week syllabus gets expensive and most of the time the squadron/wing caves to the pressure of the selection needed to meet IPP.

I am not saying this is right...it is what it is.

I wouldn't paint the lack of attrition as so poor. I've seen several command directed FPCs and it was regularly briefed to IPs as a method to get rid of those that weren't "failing" but weren't the best asset to move on to the fleet. From what I saw during my time at TW-5, as long as it was properly documented, the Commodore took the CO's recs to heart and did the right thing.

I'd also argue that a sub-NSS isn't always a bottom-feeder in Primary. Majority of the time? Yeah, probably. But sometimes guys don't adapt to the T-34 but go on to do great things in the HTs.

All nit-picks, no doubt, as overall, I agree w/ your message.

@Tom and Bean,

Thanks for the correction. I no longer have a MPTS at the ready and was too lazy to go looking for the electronic one.

 

[FlyBoyd]

But sometimes guys don't adapt to the T-34 but go on to do great things....

Concur...some guys take longer to get with the flow/pace/firehose learning required in flight school. Some of these guys have returned here to TW-4 and they are as good a IP as anyone else.

The fact that some of my students have returned and are now leaving makes me feel like "that old dude." Whole other thread though...

 

[MasterBates]

I thought you WERE "The Old Dude"...

 

[FlyBoyd]

I thought you WERE "The Old Dude"...

No not "The"....more like one of the "Old Dudes"

See how few post I have. It takes me too long to type them with this here new fangled puter thingy.

Check this post time...I just got back from dinner at Luby's and I am going to bed.

 

[Heloanjin]

Not that it really matters, but the lowest NSS that winged that I heard of (from the guy himself, mind you) was 22.

Yes, this was helo advanced.

There will always be people who complete advanced (satisfactorily complete every event) with an NSS below 35. In fact, about 6% who successfully complete will have an NSS below 35. And someone will have an NSS even below 20, although that would be very rare (somewhere on the order of .1%). That is simply the nature of the normal curve in statistics. This is true in every pipeline, including jets.

 

[ea6bflyr]

They've pushed the date back again to 01SEP08 for the new NSS calculations.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Ducky]

Its also important to remember that being sub 35 is very dependent on the completers before you. On a different week that same student may have been above 35. If I would have selected a week later in my squadron my NSS would have been 8 points lower because of all the high scores that graduated with and before me.

 

[BarrettRC8]

Cliff notes-

2) CPT's and C4000 (FAM's) block will count.

I apologize for resurrecting a fairly old thread, but this statement has me curious since the CPT gradesheets we received a couple weeks back stated that the grades were not used for calculating NSS. Additionally, amongst all of the fellow studs I've spoken with, we've all been under the impression that FAMs aren't used for NSS calculations either - Can anyone confirm that what we all have thought was, in fact, wrong and that they are included?

 

[Flying Low]

I'm not sure about CPT's but everything else counts.

 

[AJTranny]

If this is the case, there are a few misinformed instructors in corpus.

I guess what I'm asking is how do I calculate my NSS now and will this affect what % get jets? Oh yeah, if a cessna is on a treadmill, will it fly?

Ok, I think I've pissed off enough people now. Back to studying for checkride número quatro.

SAC out

 

[RHPF]

As of Feb 2009:
CPTs count (even for people who took them when they did not count, but everyone from ~Sept 2008ish on knew they counted), first block fams (C400x) does not count, everything else does count.

 

[BarrettRC8]

As of Feb 2009:
CPTs count (even for people who took them when they did not count, but everyone from ~Sept 2008ish on knew they counted), first block fams (C400x) does not count, everything else does count.

This is the word I received when I asked after going through my logbook/other trash this morning after my flight.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Resurrecting AGAIN



Sorry, but was curious if anybody had an answer. Does anyone know if:

1) Warmup flight hours count towards total hours for NSS purposes? and

2) DOES total hours even factor towards NSS? (thought I had heard something to that effect to basically keep people from incompleting flights so they could get more practice in)

Reason I ask is I have already had several warmups due to skeds/weather, I'm currently 27 days since my last flight and they're talking about giving me TWO warmups. I'd obviously prefer only one if it will somehow affect me negatively.

Thanks guys