NSS changes as of 04AUG08

[FlyingSquidz]

Cliff notes-

(edit- source from VT-2 meeting 25JUL08. The meeting discussed what was in a message/instruction that was just released.)

1) If you don't select prior to 04AUG08, your NSS will be calculated using the new system.

2) CPT's and C4000 (FAM's) block will count.

3) Marginals and UNSAT's will count against you. 2 Marg's are equal to 1 UNSAT.

I was told that the current/old way is that you still got the score of the actual flight, and if you had to redo the flight, the redo did not count for grades. You were in essence not even punished score-wise for the bad flight.

4) You can now request your current NSS from your Chain of Command at any time. The system actually weighs your scores against the group prior to give you an accurate (if not exact) number.

Feel free to add or correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Source?

 

[MIDNJAC]

Cliff notes-

1) If you don't select prior to 04AUG08, your NSS will be calculated using the new system.

2) CPT's and C4000 (FAM's) block will count.

3) Marginals and UNSAT's will count against you. 2 Marg's are equal to 1 UNSAT.

I was told that the current/old way is that you still got the score of the actual flight, and if you had to redo the flight, the redo did not count for grades. You were in essence not even punished score-wise for the bad flight.

4) You can now request your current NSS from your Chain of Command at any time. The system actually weighs your scores against the group prior to give you an accurate (if not exact) number.

Feel free to add or correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

I've not heard anything about this in TW-4 so I am skeptical, but if true, it is about f**king time (i.e stop giving people handicap flights to make them feel like flight school isn't something you need to bust a$$ for). The NSS bit seems a little bit far-fetched though....at least by nature of how it is calculated, and I don't think it will do a bit of good to know if true.

 

[UMichfly]

Squidz gouge is in line with what was passed at VT-2 this past week. It hasn't made it down the hall to VT-6 but I'm sure we'll hear about it sooner or later from official sources...if for no other reason than to choke the rumor monster.

 

[D_Rob]

Well I would have studied more for the CPTs then.

Seems kinda weird that now the master curriculum guide says CPTs and FAMs don't count, when they do ...

So for the past 4-5 months then the master curriculum guide has been lying.

 

[NavAir42]

I've not heard anything about this in TW-4 so I am skeptical, but if true, it is about f**king time (i.e stop giving people handicap flights to make them feel like flight school isn't something you need to bust a$$ for). The NSS bit seems a little bit far-fetched though....at least by nature of how it is calculated, and I don't think it will do a bit of good to know if true.

Just wait until you have a bad flight, or, God forbid, down one. I agree that there are a few people that come along who seem to get more chances than apropriate. Aviation might not be for them but it doesn't mean they aren't busting their asses.

 

[bunk22]

It's true. I was told this my the TW-5 civilian who does all the NSS work. I went through on the old system; aboves, belows and a bad flight meant a "Down" (a pinksheet), no matter what flight. Three of those and you were usually bye-bye. In my experience, this system right now is way to easy on guys.

 

[Gatordev]

Well I would have studied more for the CPTs then.

Seems kinda weird that now the master curriculum guide says CPTs and FAMs don't count, when they do ...

So for the past 4-5 months then the master curriculum guide has been lying.

The guide isn't "lying," it's just that the instruction is changing. Here's even another news flash...The MCG is actually trumped by the CNATRA stan instruction, so there's things that are in the MCG that don't apply.

If this is all true (and Bunk is a reliable source), then it's no different than when you are up for a bonus/board/whatever but can't apply quite yet. Then when the new instruction about the bonus/board/whatever comes out, you're no longer eligible. It actually happens quite often.

 

[SDNalgene]

4) You can now request your current NSS from your Chain of Command at any time. The system actually weighs your scores against the group prior to give you an accurate (if not exact) number.

It's about time they do this. When I went through they would use whatever your current ratio was and tell you what your NSS would be if you finished with that ratio. It was always fun to watch people walk around telling all their buds that they had a 65 projected NSS, only to later realize that MIF goes up in RIs so their ratio was going to go down, it was just a question of how much. It really didn't seem too hard to get just compare people to the average ratio at a particular stage, but they never did that. It wouldn't be spot on, but it would be a lot more accurate and keep people's hopes in proper perspective.

 

[OUSOONER]

Wanting to know your NSS throughout..isn't that just one more thing that's going to be on your mind that shouldn't when you're flying/studying? I do/did this with grades always calculating what I needed to get next or where I was at compared to the class..and I think I would have been better off just doing my best and get the grade I earned. There was more pressure thinking "oh I need to get an 85 on this next exam minimum.."

It's a good confidence boost for someone doing well, but if a guy finds out he's at the bottom of the pile NSS-wise, maybe it would be a detriment when he should be working harder to fix what's going wrong. IMO. But then again, this just might be one of those "when you get to primary, you'll understand" things.

 

[Ave8tor]

I'm going to select on the 7th of Aug, so I'll let you know how the new system goes. Hopefully they have all the bugs worked out. :shake_125

Some funny stuff has been going on with some of my friends scores, who were scheduled to select this past Thursday. SNA#1's OnWing is an F-18 pilot, and he has been tracking his grades throughout the entire syllabus. He would constantly remark to SNA#1 that he should have no problem getting Jets. But when he got his final NSS last week, it was a 40! Although I haven't seen his final score sheet, but something kind of smells fishy. He said that he's been doing average, if not a bit above. Also, he got a lower NSS score then someone in the same selection group who has gotten several pink sheets. Didn't make sense to me either.

It's about time they do this. When I went through they would use whatever your current ratio was and tell you what your NSS would be if you finished with that ratio. It was always fun to watch people walk around telling all their buds that they had a 65 projected NSS, only to later realize that MIF goes up in RIs so their ratio was going to go down, it was just a question of how much. It really didn't seem too hard to get just compare people to the average ratio at a particular stage, but they never did that. It wouldn't be spot on, but it would be a lot more accurate and keep people's hopes in proper perspective.

SNA#2 was scheduled to select a few weeks ago, but got pushed back because of CNATRA and Dolly, had something like this happen to him. He had about 450 hrs of time before getting here and was offered the accelerated RI program. After completion of his last sim, he was given his projected NSS, which was a 78. He then went on his CCX and finished up his final events. He said they gave him his projected score after he finished up (and prior to getting the official print out from TW5) and it was down to a 75. But when the official numbers came out, he had a 64. According to the staff that he asked, VT-2 is a bit generous with grades and they factor that into the final score. I've heard it from other people, both in 2 and 6, but mostly SNA's so I don't know how much this is rumor vs truth.

 

[abracadabra11]

I never understood the obsession with the NSS. Study and fly - the NSS works itself out just fine.

 

[Morgan81]

Wanting to know your NSS throughout..isn't that just one more thing that's going to be on your mind that shouldn't when you're flying/studying?

I've heard this from other studs and I don't agree with it. For me, knowing my NSS helps me gauge how I'm doing. I don't stress over it, but knowing where I stand just lets me relax. If you would rather not know it, that's fine but for me I find it useful. It's not like I NEED to know it, or try to calculate it after every flight. Just every monthly jacket review is all I need.

As for the NSS changes, word around the ready room was that optional warm-ups were going to bite you in the ass (as you need to marginal a flight to have it count) but the CPT's and FAMs are news to me. It'll effect everyone so it isn't "woe-is-me" news, but it'll be interesting how it will effect the first few weeks of selectees as compared to the older way.

 

[Gatordev]

Some funny stuff has been going on with some of my friends scores, who were scheduled to select this past Thursday. SNA#1's OnWing is an F-18 pilot, and he has been tracking his grades throughout the entire syllabus. He would constantly remark to SNA#1 that he should have no problem getting Jets. But when he got his final NSS last week, it was a 40! Although I haven't seen his final score sheet, but something kind of smells fishy. He said that he's been doing average, if not a bit above. Also, he got a lower NSS score then someone in the same selection group who has gotten several pink sheets. Didn't make sense to me either.

Pink sheets have nothing to do with your NSS (on the current system). Your friends F-18 onwing either didn't completely understand how NSS works (which is probable, I don't completely understand it either) and/or there's more to the story. If you're doing "average or a little better" (and what does that mean?), then you're not going to be sitting in the 60's.

SNA#2 was scheduled to select a few weeks ago, but got pushed back because of CNATRA and Dolly, had something like this happen to him. He had about 450 hrs of time before getting here and was offered the accelerated RI program. After completion of his last sim, he was given his projected NSS, which was a 78. He then went on his CCX and finished up his final events. He said they gave him his projected score after he finished up (and prior to getting the official print out from TW5) and it was down to a 75. But when the official numbers came out, he had a 64. According to the staff that he asked, VT-2 is a bit generous with grades and they factor that into the final score. I've heard it from other people, both in 2 and 6, but mostly SNA's so I don't know how much this is rumor vs truth.

That is very true. Each squadron has their NSS adjusted based off of what they give on average. The scores also adjust based on the last several group of selectees, so the not only is the score going to go down after a CCX (usually, there are just too many CTS maneuvers unless you get a ton of 5s), but it's also going to move a bit between final score/pre-selection and final score/post selection.

 

[IKE]

I never understood the obsession with the NSS. Study and fly - the NSS works itself out just fine.

I wouldn't say it "works itself out just fine." The mathematical validity of what they add/subtract based on the squadron's grading history is highly questionable. Also, they don't use a large enough sample size, so a few prior-NFOs or guys with 200+ hours and instrument ratings going through a squadron can really bump up the average ratio for a few months, thereby hurting the NSS of folks without prior experience. For example, a ratio that would have been a 57 NSS one month, can be a 47 three months later. It shouldn't be so volatile.

In the end, the "Needs of the Navy" during the week you select trumps all. I've seen guys with a high 5x to low 6x NSS get P3s during a draft, and I've seen guys who just squeaked into a 50 NSS fly the T-45. I've also seen a guy with a 61 who wanted Helos, but got Jets, while another guy in the same class with a 56 wanted Jets, but got Helos. That's what the navy "needed" that week.

It is nice to see marginals/unsats included in the NSS though. I doubt it's going to make it harder to finish flight school though, unless they reinstitute the <35 NSS cut.