NROTC vs. Academy

[xj220]

Geez people, cool it. I'm a recent Academy grad so I can tell you what I thought about that route. There were definitely times were I wondered what things would be like had I gone ROTC. Would I have partied more and had a more "college" experience? Yeah, probably. But what is the "college" experience? I'm wondering if people have been watching too much Animal House. Yeah, the Academy sucked hardcore at times and there were things that really pissed me off, but for the most part I had a good time and certainly learned a lot, more than I probably would have learned at a normal college. I'm just about to finish primary now and I can tell you this much: both USNA, ROTC and OCS guys end up at the same point, the thing that makes going to the Academy worth it is that going into the squadron I immediately had a connection with over half the people (some of the other studs I new already and others I got to know fast). Not to say Academy guys discriminate, but there's a definite "bond" because we know what's up (not trying to sound arrogant) but it's just one of those things. So far, no one cares where you went to school (unless you went to the same one, but even then no one's going to give you special treatment). It's more a case of "run what you brought" and you still have to prove yourself.

I've often heard the Academy described as one of the world's largest inside jokes, if you didn't go you wouldn't understand. In the end, if you want to be a pilot and don't care how, go ROTC. But if you're looking for something more and an experience you can't get anywhere else, give the Academy a look. The only thing is, you need to make sure it's some place you really want to go. I'm willing to answer any questions you have about USNA.

 

[DSL1990]

So, what are the statistics?

I can't believe a high schooler thinks she knows anything about anything Navy. I recommend treading lightly.

i only know what i read, so its not that much. remember, i did say many messages ago, that this is from a "high schooler's perspective".

but i do know something about statistics and math, and they are cold.

here you go:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA432824&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

have fun.

 

[BackOrdered]

(i can't believe that a highschooler is having to wake you older guys up.

Wake up from what? These "older guys" have established careers. That JUST might give them a LITTLE more insight than a NJROTC senior.

 

[DanMa1156]

DSL... I think you need to cool off a little bit... Keep in mind the people with the wings on the forum here are OFFICERS and actually know what the hell they are talking about... if nothing else, all of them have at at least gone through some commissioning source; you on the other hand are speaking like you've been sitting on promotion boards for years but in reality are still a senior in high school. Seriously, just chill out and enjoy the rest of senior year.

To the OP: I did an extra year to get to USNA. My blue and gold officer advised me wisely: free education will never hurt you. In the grand scheme, what is 1 year (less than that really, total time spent at NAPS). And NAPS/ Foundation does not mean you have any extra obligation to the USN/USMC.

I had an NROTC offer to Penn State. Do I ever wonder how I'd be if I had taken it? Yes... especially this year. Does the Academy suck? Sometimes. But do I have a good time and am glad I'm here? Yeah... I definitely know this is where I belong. I definitely think there are experiences here I'd never have anywhere else that I wouldn't trade up at all. The exposure to officers is superb as is their wealth of knowledge and experience; something that I imagine most of my NROTC counterparts miss out on. I think the guys who have gone to USNA, like xj220 and Phrog have had the wisest things to say so far in this forum; the other officers have said some really good advice too. Both are different experiences, both will land you in the same place; it's how do you want to get there?

 

[bunk22]

i only know what i read, so its not that much. remember, i did say many messages ago, that this is from a "high schooler's perspective".

but i do know something about statistics and math, and they are cold.

here you go:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA432824&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

have fun.

Interesting read. However, your attitude, your e-tude as I call it, is coming across the wrong way. I changed my post above for a reason. You want to stay here? I can put you in the penalty box if you would like. Let me know.

 

[phrogdriver]

ok. sry. i take that back.

btw, there have been zero women who have made O-10 in the Navy, so i don't think being female helps you to become a flag officer.

I think you're putting too much stock in numbers and not enough in the observations of those who are out there. The reason there have been no women admirals is that women have only been allowed in combat aviation and surface ships for a few years.

 

[DanMa1156]

and i think you're naive if you think that this statistic on O-10's doesn't reflect a deeper bias in the navy towards USNA grads.

(i can't believe that a highschooler is having to wake you older guys up. we don't live in a makebelieve land. the us navy is biased towards USNA grads. who can doubt this? or maybe it's just that because USNA grads are so dug in there at the top that USNA grads are biased towards other USNA grads. but either way, it's true. just look at the statistics.)

Ok... but maybe there's something else. Think about the type of people who apply to the Academy. With some exception, admittedly, most MIDN from USNA come as gung-ho, "I know the Navy is right for me," career-oriented people who think USNA will be the best preparation for a Naval or Marine Corps Carreer, whereas College Program NROTC Mids who end up with a commission one way or another are probably less likely to have previously thought of the Navy as a career. I think merely just the type of people who come to the Naval Academy are enough to skew the statistics you provide. Just saying I think you need to look at the whole picture here. And where are you getting these stats? 59 Admirals since 1983 just seems low to me.

 

[DanMa1156]

I think you're putting too much stock in numbers and not enough in the observations of those who are out there. The reason there have been no women admirals is that women have only been allowed in combat aviation and surface ships for a few years.

Am I being being a dumbass but hasn't there not been an O-10 since the 40s? Halsey in 1945 was the last one right? My point is that DSL is talking about women being O-10 but there just aren't any more O-10s since then.

Just as fact facet, there have been women flag officers; we had one speak to us in Plebe Summer.

 

[a_m]

It's not so much the academics that makes the Academy worthwhile, but it's the people that you meet. It's the only place where everyone you went to school with that you KNOW you will see in the fleet. Out of all the friends you would make at a normal school, you might see 1-10 of your fellow ROTC members, right? Is this necessary to make a better officer? Absolutely not, but, like everyone else said, it does helpt to provide a common background.

 

[Spekkio]

DSL, officially your commissioning source has 0 bearing on career advancement. Furthermore, one can retire after 20 years in the service, which is around O-5. There are more than enough threads on these boards saying that those who stay in tend to make O-4 quite easily barring any major fuckups like a DWI or felony arrest, and the vast majority eventually get selected for O-5. There is no "you must be an Academy graduate" pre-requisite to making these ranks. "Retiring" at the bright, bold age of 42-50 puts people in prime position to start a second career while collecting half pay and medical benefits from Uncle Sam.

It would be wise of you not to argue with other officers regarding how promotion works.

Slight threadjack: I don't know how the flag officer promotions work, but I also haven't really looked that far down the line. I have heard from a couple old timers that Academy guys start to get preference for senior officer promotions -- not because it's anything official, but because it's likely that the guy(s) signing off on the promotion is an Academy guy himself. Is there any truth to this, considering that a few people have mentioned the "networking" advantage of USNA?

 

[DSL1990]

i'm sorry bunk. didn't mean to sound insulting. i was just giving my thoughts. i didn't mean to insult any naval officers.

sorry to all of you and i won't talk any more on this thread. bye. :watching_

 

[a_m]

i'm sorry bunk. didn't mean to sound insulting. i was just giving my thoughts. i didn't mean to insult any naval officers.

sorry to all of you and i won't talk any more on this thread. bye. :watching_

I've never known a woman to shut up that quickly. I don't believe your silence.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Aside from discriminating against General Engineering and General Science, you are living in the past. Here are the majors available at the Academy today:

Aerospace Engineering
Chemistry
Computer Science
Economics
Electrical Engineering
English
General Engineering
General Science
History
Information Technology
Mathematics
Mechanical Engineering
Naval Architecture
Ocean Engineering
Oceanography
Physics
Political Science
Quantitative Economics
Systems Engineering

http://www.usna.edu/academics/acmajors.htm

Umm, yeah - while I'll admit that I forgot about General Science, General Engineering and IT, and missed the Quantitative Economics Major - the link you posted is outdated. It missed Computer Engineering (which was included in my list. http://www.usna.edu/EE/

 

[PhillyPhinest]

I just finished up the Academy in May, and am also finishing up primary right now... Its so tough to say which commissioning source is per se better. However, I think Danmav put it best when he said that the experience is one of a kind. Take away my first year and I loved the Academy as well as the whole Annapolis area. I made great friends while there and actually have made a whole new set of Academy friends out of guys I never met before API, but hung out with because they were in our "Academy group" during A pool. But there are definitely ups and downs... and in the first year there were a lot of downs. However, in spending ten months as a plebe where everyone is put into leadership positions above you, it was great to see literally dozens of leadership styles ranging from great to abysmal, and then from that taking what you like while discarding the rest.

I also can understand DSL's perspective with the Academy even if I realize she doesn't have the most tact. I remember as a senior in high school wanting nothing more than to go to the Academy, because I felt that somehow the Academy will transfer me into this amazing person capable of achieving any dream or any goal. Kind of like taking "the road less traveled." I've also heard it said that the Academy never lives up to a mid's expectations. I think part of this is because many high schoolers have such a lofty view of the Academy. In the end though you have to take it for what it is. My roommate at school always used to bitch about the Academy and how it didn't do anything to make us leaders. I more took the approach that the opportunities were there if we took advantage of them. Along the way we'd endure no small amount of bs, but overall if you bought into how the system worked, it could become a great place to spend your four years and get ready for whatever you choose after...

kinda deep for my first post, but ehh, thought it needed to be said

 

[DanMa1156]

Also, don't forget about majoring in Arabic and Chinese.