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NFO to PILOT transition
- Thread starter DON
- Start date
Any reason for being so cryptic? There are community specific folks here that can help you with things if you're a bit more forthcoming. Nobody is going to email your front office to tell them you want a transition. If you're serious about it, then there are folks here who have succesfully gone that way and can give you the gouge. We can do this via PM is necessary.
Brett
transition
I transitioned from being an A6 Intruder B/N to A6 pilot in 1982. All I heard at the time was how it would be a career killer. It's crap. COMVAVAIRLANT, RADM Denby Starling, and former Reagan CO RADM Jim Symonds, were B/N instructors at VA-128 (A6 RAG) at Whidbey Island when I was a RAG student. The three of us were squadronmates at VT-4 in Pensacola (back when VT-4 was a primary and advanced (pilot) jet squadron flying T-2's and A-4's) going through the transition at the same time. We all heard it was a career killer. Many of the RETREADS became squadron CO's and several became flag officers, including the two mentioned above. I was fortunate to spend my entire career in the cockpit and screened for squadron command as the A6 was being retired.
The bottom line to a good career in the Navy is to do a good job at each squadron or command. Nothing else matters. Your designation and/or designation changes mean little compared to performance.
I transitioned from being an A6 Intruder B/N to A6 pilot in 1982. All I heard at the time was how it would be a career killer. It's crap. COMVAVAIRLANT, RADM Denby Starling, and former Reagan CO RADM Jim Symonds, were B/N instructors at VA-128 (A6 RAG) at Whidbey Island when I was a RAG student. The three of us were squadronmates at VT-4 in Pensacola (back when VT-4 was a primary and advanced (pilot) jet squadron flying T-2's and A-4's) going through the transition at the same time. We all heard it was a career killer. Many of the RETREADS became squadron CO's and several became flag officers, including the two mentioned above. I was fortunate to spend my entire career in the cockpit and screened for squadron command as the A6 was being retired.
The bottom line to a good career in the Navy is to do a good job at each squadron or command. Nothing else matters. Your designation and/or designation changes mean little compared to performance.
RetreadRand said:
To add to the negative career impact mentioned above, you will miss your gate for DH screen most likely, in the sense that the above mentioned fitrep and training time, etc, will not make you competative against your peers. Depending on what community you get into, this could result in a single flying tour and then done, with eight years of commitment post new wings to boot. That would equate to a lot of jobs that you don't want (five years) to get one flying tour. DH screen rates are getting more competative across the board with a few exceptions, and taking yourself out of that pool, or not being competative in that pool will make it difficult to continue to advance career-wise and thus continue to fly beyond that single first tour. In some communities, you are not really competative for a follow-on flying shore tour if you are not "a player" and not screening for dh with your yg (fist and second look) will end any chance of going back to a squadron to fly post shore tour. Always exceptions, always some options (longshots that may be available), but by in large this is the truth of getting out of the "normal career progression." With the implementation of competative screen boards for dh, and the percentages going down, being out of your window is not highly favorable. In your situation, you are probably going to get your first look for dh a year into your pilot "first tour" at the latest, and your second to follow, so not in a good spot. Even the O-4 screen rates have been rough, and many transitions have missed the jump the first time. For you it sounds like transition or nothing, so you say none of this matters, but it is important to consider that you will be incurring a lot of commitment for what could turn out to be only one tour in the cockpit. A lot to think about.
The conventional wisdom is that the 3 years of not observed fitreps will hurt your career advancement. I disagree. Most, if not all, of those picked for the transition already have stellar fitreps, and the senior boards understand not observed or 1 of 1 fitreps (foreign tours and certain exchange tours produce 3 years of 1 of 1). Everyone leaving their first tour should have comparable hours. The JO's who go the the RAG as instructors or an 'operational' shore tour such as Strike U. or Topgun certainly have an edge during those 2-3 years, but they have the same edge operationally (hours, traps, experience) over someone with orders to the training command, USNA, or any other non-operational shore tour as they do over the NFO-to-pilot transitioners. My advice to the transitioners is to look closely at what squadrons are available coming out out of the RAG as a second sea tour officer, first tour pilot and try and get to one where you will have a chance to be a significant department head before your tour is over.
Ignore the conventional wisdom. Remember RADM Starling (who was an O4 first tour pilot and was still early selected for O5), RADM Symonds, RADM Dave Venlet, CAPT Dave "Roy" Rogers, CAPT Terry Toms, Col Hutch Hutchinson and many more. I can remember having this same conversation in the VT-4 Ready Room about whether we were all screwed professionally by making the transition. Nothing has changed in the 20 years since. The same checks and hoops are there. The only big difference is we got the aviation bonus before someone decided to put a price tag on fulfilling a little boy's dream to fly instead of ride. I guess they were proven right when they said we would all make the transition whether we got the bonus or not. BTW, my year group was the last to get the cash. Sometimes I think they still extracted it a nickel at a time out of our hides.
Ignore the conventional wisdom. Remember RADM Starling (who was an O4 first tour pilot and was still early selected for O5), RADM Symonds, RADM Dave Venlet, CAPT Dave "Roy" Rogers, CAPT Terry Toms, Col Hutch Hutchinson and many more. I can remember having this same conversation in the VT-4 Ready Room about whether we were all screwed professionally by making the transition. Nothing has changed in the 20 years since. The same checks and hoops are there. The only big difference is we got the aviation bonus before someone decided to put a price tag on fulfilling a little boy's dream to fly instead of ride. I guess they were proven right when they said we would all make the transition whether we got the bonus or not. BTW, my year group was the last to get the cash. Sometimes I think they still extracted it a nickel at a time out of our hides.
Intruder Driver said:
You'll get no argument from me there, sir! My only basis for the influx of "negative food for thought" was the ramifications of going down that path and what it could mean for overall satisfaction with the choice. Just as good a chance you hit the transition, head to flight school and DON"T go tailhooking for a living, and if ANY of the single anchor paths isn't enough to risk the extra years with no flying, it is a risky call. Wouldn't trade a day I've spent flying thus far myself, and am enduring the sea tour required to hopefully continue, but even staying on the "career path" I know that I am less than 50-50 (on the last two years dh stats) from getting a chance to stay in the cockpit. I am on the bonus, but failure to screen for me would be four more years in jobs not flying (probably) and an end on the spot to the bonus. I am taking a similar risk, so obviously it was worth it to me, but something that had to be considered in my decision to stay.
I didn't say it was a career killer, but it does have potentially negative effects, as mentioned in Stinkster's posts. True, many have gone on to achieve success post-transition, just as my last Skipper did, but to counsel someone to ignore the potential pitfalls is doing that person a diservice. Just because lots of people did it 10-15 years ago doesn't mean they will in the future. Best to have all the information so the OP can make an informed choice.
Brett
It is worth pointing out that this is not the same Navy that Intruder, or the other notables he mentioned, made their transition in. While it may not be a career killer, there are considerations, and some are negative. It simply depends on what you want out of your Navy experience.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Just a platfrom switch can have negative career implications today. When I applied to switch airframes/communities, I had to sign a letter understanding that it could adversly affect my career. I can only imagine that it would be more so for people changing their designator.
Really! I had to sign no such letter, I guess that is a relatively new thing.
I have to agree with Brett, it is a little bit different for the Navy nowadays. I have not seen too many 'oddities' make it to CO or higher in the past few years. Most of the transtions that I know of personally made it to O-5 and then retired. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, just my personal observations.
The biggest difference between pre-96 transitions and the ones after they restarted the transition pipeline is that guys do not necessarily go back to their original platform. They select with all the other SNA's at the end of primary. To go from FO in Prowlers to Pilot in Prowlers is a whole lot easier on the career than going from FO in P-3's to Pilot in F/A-18's. I think that is a key difference between the guys from 20 years ago and present day that people fail to realize.
A few other factors that come into play are the joint requirement no longer being waived for O-5, a smaller Navy and a very high rentention rate after 9/11.
And as for me, with my hand-eye coordination I have been pretty happy with just 'riding'.......