Next Board ~ April 2011

[MGoBrew11]

I'll never understand why the ROTC guys get to hog the slots.. I can see the Academy, but What makes a person better just because his school offers NROTC and the other's doesn't.

The Navy has already invested 2-4 years in them and they have already invested 3-4 years in the Navy. Meanwhile, the Navy owes us nothing and we owe the Navy nothing. Why shouldn't they get the spots first?

Well, this sucks. Guess I'll have to take another job after graduation and just wait it out.

 

[Lucy]

Same here brenbuck. Hey, it'll just be more experience to add for next time around right? And we should all be PT gods by the time we get to OCS :-D

 

[JMonte85]

The Navy has already invested 2-4 years in them and they have already invested 3-4 years in the Navy. Meanwhile, the Navy owes us nothing and we owe the Navy nothing. Why shouldn't they get the spots first?

Having been through it in another branch and seeing how easily pilot/navigator slots are handed out to people who really didn't have much credentials is why. I see a lot of shining applicants on this forum. There is no real investment to most cadets until they are actually accepted. Until then, The students (cadets) pay for the classes for rotc themselves through the school, their own college classes, provide their own transportation, buy their own food, pay for their own rent, use their own health plan, just like the rest of us, and drink the same beer. Where is this big investment? Nothing against the guys in NROTC, and maybe they do things differently, but I just don't see the huge difference.

I can see them having the edge over us for taking the step, but it'd be nice if we were all in the same pool with an equal opportunity. Is all

 

[MGoBrew11]

Fair enough. I see where you are coming from. A combined pool would make a lot of sense. Alas, that is not the system in place.

I was thinking of it in that they are taking on more risk. If they don't get their first choice, tough crap. If we don't get what we want, we can pass on the offer and try again. But you are right, I have several NROTC friends that have a similar college experience compared to everyone else.

 

[EM1]

and seeing how easily pilot/navigator slots are handed out to people who really didn't have much credentials is why.

except for:
-being selected to a slot that is competitive already
-exposure to the Navy
-proven ability to pass PT tests
-Passing Navy courses
-the ability to keep up with NROTC duties as a college student. Many are involved in many outside of the NROTC organizations as well
-the ability to avoid getting sucked into a lot of the crap normal college students do
-being dedicated to the Navy early on (many before college) and not just when the reality of the economy hits

The Navy doesnt have room to make every NROTC grad a pilot, nor does it have room to give pilot slots the OCS guys and throw "less credentialed" NROTC grads all in SWO. The Navy has invested time and money into these kids. As a taxpayer, I expect to see a return on my investment.

 

[JMonte85]

except for:
-being selected to a slot that is competitive already

They are going up each against each other. Not much different than us. No sympathy there.

-exposure to the Navy

That doesn't mean they're a better candidate

-proven ability to pass PT tests

PT tests are not even required anymore to goto OCS

-Passing Navy courses

So an Engineer can pass Calc2, I don't think NROTC classes are stringent and horrible to pass.

-the ability to avoid getting sucked into a lot of the crap normal college students do

This is NULL to the topic.

-being dedicated to the Navy early on (many before college) and not just when the reality of the economy hits

THis one I will give to you. That's why I said they could have the upper hand if it came down to the nit and grit, and they're showing how bad they want to be a part of the Navy. But like I said not all schools offer NROTC, and not all schools offer NROTC and provide the Major a student is looking for.

The Navy doesnt have room to make every NROTC grad a pilot, nor does it have room to give pilot slots the OCS guys and throw "less credentialed" NROTC grads all in SWO. The Navy has invested time and money into these kids. As a taxpayer, I expect to see a return on my investment.

It sounds like you commissioned through NROTC I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings but that is my take on it. Not every Cadet is going for a Pilot slot just like not every OCS candidate is. But yes there are truly some guys with minimal credentials applying for these slots and getting them. And there are shit hot guys in NROTC who get it because they deserve it. It's sad but true. But the selection is among a pool of NROTC cadets. So when the shit hot guys run out and they have left overs, they can afford to give them away. That is my point to this whole issue I brought up.

NROTC is a great program don't get me wrong. It has a lot of benefits for preparing a future officer. I enjoyed my time when I was in but just because you're in NROTC doesn't make you hot shit.

Anyway, that's my take on it.. Take it how you want. Not looking to make enemies on the forum, just justifying my reasoning.. So in hind-site I won't contribute to the topic anymore. It seems to be hijacking the thread.

 

[twobecrazy]

I'm going to step in for a second.

They are going up each against each other. Not much different than us. No sympathy there.

You can find sympathy between SHIT and SYPHILLUS! ... Honestly, I don't think NROTC really cares about your sympathy. They are competing for slots. They get precedence over you because the Navy is putting time and money into training them. It is that simple.

That doesn't mean they're a better candidate.

It has nothing to do with being a better candidate. They are not competing against you and they never will be. But it is true that they have the exposure. They know what is going to be expected from them. The Navy knows what they are getting from their investment. That is pretty clear and simple again.

PT tests are not even required anymore to goto OCS.

Correct, so once again the Navy knows that these individuals can pass a PT test and have for a couple of years now. They have put forth the effort and proven themselves to be physically fit. Not saying anyone else isn't but the fact is that those individuals have done it and continue to do it.

So an Engineer can pass Calc2, I don't think NROTC classes are stringent and horrible to pass.

Probably correct. But the Navy "teaching" style is completely different then college. Thus, these individuals have proven they can be successfully taught by the Navy. You have not done that yet.

This is NULL to the topic.

I have seen some bright kids get sucked into the college life and leave school. I have only seen 1 NROTC guy get kicked out of NROTC because he partied too hard! He is still in school. I don't know if I would NULL that statement.

THis one I will give to you. That's why I said they could have the upper hand if it came down to the nit and grit, and they're showing how bad they want to be a part of the Navy. But like I said not all schools offer NROTC, and not all schools offer NROTC and provide the Major a student is looking for..

There are many satellite programs you can do for NROTC. If you wanted it bad enough then you would have done it no matter what. I think that is the point here. But I agree with both of you.

It sounds like you commissioned through NROTC I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings but that is my take on it. Not every Cadet is going for a Pilot slot just like not every OCS candidate is. But yes there are truly some guys with minimal credentials applying for these slots and getting them. And there are shit hot guys in NROTC who get it because they deserve it. It's sad but true. But the selection is among a pool of NROTC cadets. So when the shit hot guys run out and they have left overs, they can afford to give them away. That is my point to this whole issue I brought up.

I think this has been explained enough above.

NROTC is a great program don't get me wrong. It has a lot of benefits for preparing a future officer. I enjoyed my time when I was in but just because you're in NROTC doesn't make you hot shit.

I don't think anyone lays claim that only shit hot people come out of NROTC.

Anyway, that's my take on it.. Take it how you want. Not looking to make enemies on the forum, just justifying my reasoning.. So in hind-site I won't contribute to the topic anymore. It seems to be hijacking the thread.

I concur and will no longer discuss this here. If you want to discuss this then maybe open up a thread for conversation on the matter. But realize that you are applying for OCS which is a completely different commissioning source then NROTC. You are not privileged to their benefits or their problems. Complaining about does nothing as well as it should do nothing because these are two different programs and should be viewed that way.

 

[JMonte85]

I badly want to comment.. But I already said I wouldn't

 

[fjd24]

Thanks twobecrazy. I have no idea what Eagle was crying about but he makes absolutely zero sense. Also not trying to make enemies on this board but come on... That was pure gibberish.

 

[fjd24]

I badly want to comment.. But I already said I wouldn't

You shouldn't. Back to the purpose of this thread...

 

[EM1]

I badly want to comment.. But I already said I wouldn't

That would be wise.

I agree with everything twobecrazy said.

IF you get selected, walking around with a chip thinking that NROTC grad didnt work as hard as you did will NOT help you in any, way, shape or form. There is no perfect commissioning source, every one produces a few crappy Officers, and every one serves a different function. OCS happens to fill the gaps left where the others dont fill.

And, my screen name isnt EM1 because I was a general NROTC midshipman.

 

[GreenLantern330]

Now, maybe my opinion doesn't count because I'm a civvy and a non prior, but I agreed with Eaglei22. The only thing I would add is that I feel like the only people that should get priority over us are those from NROTC who were on scholarship. Those, in my opinion, are the only ones that the Navy has truly invested time and money on. Like Eaglei22 said, if you're not on scholarship, you're paying for your classes and you're spending your time, not the Navy's. I also understand what twobecrazy is saying that we're not in competition with NROTC midshipmen for certain billets because they do get priority (NROTC and OCS are two completely separate categories), but I just think that if you're not on scholarship, you shouldn't receive a priority. And while some schools do have the cross town option, not every university has that option. And what if you have a medical condition that requires you to get a waiver while you're in college? What if you get a waiver by the time it's too late for NROTC? Is that your fault? Just my opinion on the matter, but like I said, I have no prior military experience, so what do I know.

I guess we're all just frustrated with all the rumors of board closures. It just makes us thinks quotas are getting filled because of academy and NROTC guys and it sucks for us who didn't have the luxury of attending either.

 

[JMonte85]

Thanks twobecrazy. I have no idea what Eagle was crying about but he makes absolutely zero sense. Also not trying to make enemies on this board but come on... That was pure gibberish.

I'll agree to disagree with twobecrazy because I respect him and we all have our own opinions.. Don't let that FS get your head too big.. Now back to the original discussion.

That would be wise. I agree with everything twobecrazy said.

Big surpirse.



Off topic, so I had 3 reps and had gotten an additional 3 reps just now... Why do I still only show 3 reps? Does it take a bit to go through?

 

[eas7888]

I think a better argument would be, is ROTC or a Service Academy education a cost effective way of training future leaders. With a tightening budget, it seems that the numbers would be in favor of more OCS slots, and fewer ROTC and Academy slots. I don't think anyone would argue that great leaders are produced from each source, the point is, can we train them cheaper?

 

[GreenLantern330]

I think a better argument would be, is ROTC or a Service Academy education a cost effective way of training future leaders. With a tightening budget, it seems that the numbers would be in favor of more OCS slots, and fewer ROTC and Academy slots. I don't think anyone would argue that great leaders are produced from each source, the point is, can we train them cheaper?

This is an excellent point. Eliminate the costs of paying for their educations, room and board, and whatever other expenditures come from educating leaders for 2 to 4 years compared to 12 weeks. +1