Navy vs Air Force

[Ryan-90]

Thank you to all the people who helped me with this. It is obvious that the Navy is the best choice for me and this summer I'll be visiting a few different naval bases. Anyone have anywhere specific that I should go see? I'm already going to Pensacola and Randolph AF base (just to talk to some people my dad knows).

-Ryan

 

[Ryan-90]

I love how you talk as if:

A- You're already a Naval Aviator, who actually knows what he's talking about

B- As if you've ever been in the cockpit during a 0/0 landing, and it's a breeze

Is a 0/0 landing as scary as a night carrier landing? Probably not, but I don't know; I've only been in the cockpit for the former not the latter, but to act like you wouldn't have white knuckles in the process shows you don't understand the situation

FWIW, join the Navy. Why join a service you're already talking shit about?

When was I ever talking shit?

 

[HuggyU2]

This is why I don't go to any AF sites--I'm sure there's plenty of Navy bashing going on.

I briefly addressed this once, but quite frankly,... no, AF officers really don't "bash" on the Navy/Marines much at all. OK,... do a "search" on an AF forum, and I'm sure you'll find something. But it's really a much larger,... MUCH LARGER,... sport for the Navy/Marine guys.
That's actually how I got active on AW: I stumbled across it a while back, and the first posts I read were just "bash, bash, bash". Finally, I read a number of things that were just plain false and wrong, and I jumped in . Granted, I got off to a bad start, apologized, and tried to make ammends and start over. Oh well...

But the bottom line is it doesn't matter that you guys enjoy it and do it more. It's not that it's better or worse. It's just the cultural differences.

What do I base this on? Quite a bit of time hanging around Navy sites (not just AW, either); involved in hiring most of the Navy/Marine pilots currently flying in the U-2 (great guys,... and gals,... by the way); spending a lot of time in Navy/Marine ready rooms, and getting to fly a bunch of Navy/Marine hardware in my career.
Like I said, it doesn't really matter: but the Navy/Marines take the interservice jousting much more seriously than the AF guys do.
Just my opinion and observation. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Fog]

The simple fact of the matter is that the USAF sucked all the fun out of their flying about 50 years ago. Even tho they have mo better toys than the Navy-Marines, from their pre-flight brief (with a party man grading everybody) to their top-down hands-on operational control from 4-star land, it seems more like the Soviet Union than the US of A.

The Navy-Marines still allow & encourage thought, action & initiative at the 0-4 level & below and the admiral does not presume to jump in your cockpit and fly your bird for you. We probably lose a few more good men doing it this way, but we do so relatively happy w/out ulcers.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Like I said, it doesn't really matter: but the Navy/Marines take the interservice jousting much more seriously than the AF guys do.

Sort of like the bully in school who pulls the smelly girl's pigtails just to hear her whine? Oh yeah.....Maverick and Iceman would kick Chappie and Doug Master's ass any day 2v2.

 

[eddie]

Sort of like the bully in school who pulls the smelly girl's pigtails just to hear her whine? Oh yeah.....Maverick and Iceman would kick Chappie and Doug Master's ass any day 2v2.

But but Doug Masters had awesome hair, and TOM CRUISE IS GAY!!!!

 

[eddie]

The simple fact of the matter is that the USAF sucked all the fun out of their flying about 50 years ago. Even tho they have mo better toys than the Navy-Marines, from their pre-flight brief (with a party man grading everybody) to their top-down hands-on operational control from 4-star land, it seems more like the Soviet Union than the US of A.

The Navy-Marines still allow & encourage thought, action & initiative at the 0-4 level & below and the admiral does not presume to jump in your cockpit and fly you bird for you. We probably lose a few more good men doing it this way, but we do so relatively happy w/out ulcers.

Does this have anything to do the multiple warfare types the Navy as a whole prosecutes?

 

[Fog]

Does this have anything to do the multiple warfare types the Navy as a whole prosecutes?

Huh??

 

[HuggyU2]

Fog: reference your post on the previous page, the leadership isn't too concerned anymore with having "fun". They simply want the mission done well, without losing a $328M single-seat fighter, or overflying a sovereign country's denied airspace.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a crew dog like you, and worked hard to avoid a non-flying tour so I could stay around the flightline, enjoying what I do best.
I've been flying in the USAF for a while now, and am having a blast. Would I be even happier in the Navy/Marines? Quite possibly. But it doesn't dimish the "fun" I'm having now in being an AF Officer.
As for the top-down, hands-on control: get used to it. I'm convinced that the reason it wasn't prevalent in the Navy is the fact that you guys were at sea, and away from "the big guy". However, with satellite reachback and the current near-real-time technologies being perfected, your days of having high-end Flag Officers away from your daily, tactical decisions, is almost gone. I think it's unfortunate, since I've always liked the Navy's "at sea autonomy": I wish we had more of it in the USAF.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Does this have anything to do the multiple warfare types the Navy as a whole prosecutes?

Huh??

Did someone say "prosecute"!!!?

http://media.npr.org/news/images/2005/mar/29/reuters/cochran200.jpg

 

[Scoob]

As for the top-down, hands-on control: get used to it. I'm convinced that the reason it wasn't prevalent in the Navy is the fact that you guys were at sea, and away from "the big guy". However, with satellite reachback and the current near-real-time technologies being perfected, your days of having high-end Flag Officers away from your daily, tactical decisions, is almost gone. I think it's unfortunate, since I've always liked the Navy's "at sea autonomy": I wish we had more of it in the USAF.

I remember seeing the Army passing around a book that talked about the strength of AQ lying in the autonomy of its cells, and the decentralization of the decision making process. Basically, it stems from the idea that cutting off the head of the snake no longer kills the body.

I can't remember the name of the book (and I'm too lazy to look this morning), but the Army seemed to at least be paying lip service to the idea of refocusing on decentralizing its own decision making, and re-empowering the lower level officers. Of course, they were still canx-ing ops for lack of Pred assets.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Fog: reference your post on the previous page, the leadership isn't too concerned anymore with having "fun". They simply want the mission done well, without losing a $328M single-seat fighter, or overflying a sovereign country's denied airspace.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a crew dog like you, and worked hard to avoid a non-flying tour so I could stay around the flightline, enjoying what I do best.
I've been flying in the USAF for a while now, and am having a blast. Would I be even happier in the Navy/Marines? Quite possibly. But it doesn't dimish the "fun" I'm having now in being an AF Officer.
As for the top-down, hands-on control: get used to it. I'm convinced that the reason it wasn't prevalent in the Navy is the fact that you guys were at sea, and away from "the big guy". However, with satellite reachback and the current near-real-time technologies being perfected, your days of having high-end Flag Officers away from your daily, tactical decisions, is almost gone. I think it's unfortunate, since I've always liked the Navy's "at sea autonomy": I wish we had more of it in the USAF.

Absolutley spot on. Flag level micromanagement is coming to a command near you. Ever have to sit in on the Commodores VTC? You would be amazed at the level of JO crapola they delve into there.

On the Marine side, my group headquarters is in Iraq, and I talk to them nearly every day about whatever LCpl just twisted his ankle/beat his wife/got a DUI/etc. Why? Because they are getting questions about it from wing and higher.

the Army seemed to at least be paying lip service to the idea of refocusing on decentralizing its own decision making, and re-empowering the lower level officers. Of course, they were still canx-ing ops for lack of Pred assets.

Lip service is the key term here. We have this beat into our heads at OCS/TBS as well.

The Navy/Marine Corps is on the same slippery slope. We're just farther up the hill at the moment and gaining speed fast. See you at the bottom.

 

[Spekkio]

At least for me, I also consider what might happen to me were I to NPQ from SNA at NAMI. Obviously we all hope that won't happen to us, but it happens to some people. If the AF NPQ'd me from what I've seen you become a second class citizen when you aren't a pilot. The Navy has a lot of interesting and varied things outside of pilot that one can go for. Admiral Fallon was an NFO and, from the stuff I've read here, a lot of different jobs are rewarding.

Disclaimer: The above represents the research and opinions of a wannabe with no actual experience with the military beyond the recruiting office
Also, I don't mean to disrespect the AF or anything else. Jesting from winged guys aside (they're entitled), I'm sure the AF has a lot of great and qualified people just like every branch does.

Plus there's also BDCP for the Navy :icon_glas

According to what we were told at OCS: If you or anyone else NPQ for flight or fail out of flight school, there's a very, very high probability that you are going to be a SWO, and most likely you won't have a choice in the matter. That goes for any other specialized community as well.

 

[HAL Pilot]

To go back a few pages.....for those of you talking about 0-0 landings....I've been in a few DC-10 autolands where we did not see the runway until the the aircraft touched down and the nose wheel was lowered to the ground. Then we saw 1 and occassionally 2 centerline lights during the entire roll out and had to have a follow me truck for the taxi to the gate.

I've also ridden in a few tanker KA-6D aircraft during my time on TR and have a handfull of day and night traps. All VFR though.

I sucked a lot more seat cushion during the DC-10 "0-0" autolands then I ever did during a trap. It is not a warm and fuzzy feeling staring into the goo and at your instruments hoping there really is a runway there, that you really are aligned with it and that you really won't plow into the ground.

But then again I never had a trap at night, IFR to a pitching deck so that might require more cushion extraction. I'll leave that to someone like A-4s, Boom-Boom or Wink to decide. I'm sure they've done both.

 

[Harrier Dude]

0/0 at the ship at night suuuuuuuuuuuuucccks!!