You mean like crossing that 6" red line on the flight line?
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Navy vs Air Force
- Thread starter contrail_dash
- Start date
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Could part of the reason that you have not seen much of a difference in flying with the USAF is that you are in a community that is 1: Very unique in the service and prides itself on being unique 2: Has, as you point out, have a disproportionate representation from other services?
You were also within in 'choke-con' from the brass and on the 'wrong' coast.
P.S. Worked with your Group Commander, good guy who liked wearing both wings too.
I was thinking essentially the same thing.
Vick was flying for the Marine Corps, but in the Peoples Republic of Cherry Point (PRCP) under the micromanagement of Comrades Beans and Face.
Under those circumstances, I'd rather be in the USAF, too.
There are a few obvious caveats to my observations, not the least of which is that I'm just getting my feet wet in the AF. That said, another point to consider is that the AF is a considerably larger organization than the MC with a much larger array of communities. I expect that my experiences in the AF will be quite distinct from, say, someone flying for the mobility command. That's what makes my skin crawl when people make sweeping generalizations about any of the services - I wouldn't pretend to know any more about life in the F-15 community than I would the Marine EA-6 community, cause I've spent no time in either. Best I can do is offer observations based on my own experiences.
Case in point though to support my earlier contention that flying in the AF isn't as suffocating as it's made out to be...we have T-38's in the squadron that constitute our Companion Trainer Program. Once you're checked out in it you can get on the schedule for an out-and-in (or out-and-back in AF speak), which means that you get a jet for the day to fly pretty much where ever you want to go with it. No flight plan needs to be submitted in advance to the command, no formal screening of your plan. It's on you to make sure that you you don't go into a field you can't get back out of or land someplace that can't get you started - which basically means it's on you to be the winged aviator that you are. Just take off when you're supposed to and get back at a reasonable time. Want to head to Yuma to see some buds and have a Bunker Buster at the tower? Go for it. Want to head to Seattle for lunch? Go for it.
You've basically earned the trust of the program to not do anything stupid. Of course, pork it away and you can expect to stand tall when you get back, but they give you the rope to hang yourself. Once again we're comparing apples to oranges, but the notion of just heading out with a Harrier and a gas card in that manner for the day is beyond absurd (again, on the east coast, under the regimes I experienced) - out-and-ins were deliberately scheduled and command approved. Different jet, different everything really, but my original point stands...you can't categorically say that naval aviation is more free wheeling than AF aviation.
I'll save my observations thus far on the distinctions between leadership in the AF and the MC for another dissertation...
Case in point though to support my earlier contention that flying in the AF isn't as suffocating as it's made out to be...we have T-38's in the squadron that constitute our Companion Trainer Program. Once you're checked out in it you can get on the schedule for an out-and-in (or out-and-back in AF speak), which means that you get a jet for the day to fly pretty much where ever you want to go with it. No flight plan needs to be submitted in advance to the command, no formal screening of your plan. It's on you to make sure that you you don't go into a field you can't get back out of or land someplace that can't get you started - which basically means it's on you to be the winged aviator that you are. Just take off when you're supposed to and get back at a reasonable time. Want to head to Yuma to see some buds and have a Bunker Buster at the tower? Go for it. Want to head to Seattle for lunch? Go for it.
You've basically earned the trust of the program to not do anything stupid. Of course, pork it away and you can expect to stand tall when you get back, but they give you the rope to hang yourself. Once again we're comparing apples to oranges, but the notion of just heading out with a Harrier and a gas card in that manner for the day is beyond absurd (again, on the east coast, under the regimes I experienced) - out-and-ins were deliberately scheduled and command approved. Different jet, different everything really, but my original point stands...you can't categorically say that naval aviation is more free wheeling than AF aviation.
I'll save my observations thus far on the distinctions between leadership in the AF and the MC for another dissertation...
The purpose of the companion trainer program is to provide a lower-cost, lower-overhead alternative to the U-2 so that aircrew can maintain proficiency and keep their airmanship sharp. It is also a great platform for incentive flights, so we have ample opportunity to reward our hard-working enlisted, keep our docs flying, and get cadets in the air when they come through on visits.
Between deployments you fly the U-2 pretty minimally whereas you can fly the T-38 a few times a week. Usually it's just an hour to head out to the MOA and wring out the jet, hit another local field for some approaches, or just bust out some landings, but you can also get an out-and-back for the day or take the jet on the road for the weekend.
As anyone who has pushed the limits of currency and proficiency can attest, every little bit helps.
Between deployments you fly the U-2 pretty minimally whereas you can fly the T-38 a few times a week. Usually it's just an hour to head out to the MOA and wring out the jet, hit another local field for some approaches, or just bust out some landings, but you can also get an out-and-back for the day or take the jet on the road for the weekend.
As anyone who has pushed the limits of currency and proficiency can attest, every little bit helps.
I've seen plenty of CYA in the Navy in my few short years. I had a squadron-mate who wanted to take a helo to a local school that the squadron had partnered with for some show and tell. Said school was maybe 3mi away. If you took the scenic route. He had to submit all sorts of "cross country" approval plans and what not to make sure that everything was in order. Apparently "adequate safeguards" aren't going out and making sure that the field is big enough to fit a helo into followed by a SWEEP check on the day of.
Anyone notice how hard it is to get a "fly-by" approved in the Navy?....does not seem so difficult as the AF (unless you are in the Vermont ANG
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Harrier Dude
Living the dream
In the PRCP, the Harrier RAG does 4 dets a year to Yuma, AZ for weapons training. Each time we come back from these evolution we were required to fill out a cross country request to come home. Our fuel stops, load outs, crews, and alternates were scrutinized by Group, and often the Group CO himself. Keep in mind that the junior pilot flying the RTB legs was a senior Captain, division lead, RAG instructor.
Not so much on the West Coast.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
2MAW strikes again! I lead a division of 4 A/C back from Desert Talon. I was a WTI/AFL, but they made sure I had a Major in the division (who had just come back from the refresher syllabus and wasn't even NSQ) to keep his eye on me. The Col/former MAWTS-1 CO in the flight actually made the Major tolerable.
At Cherry Pt we were always amazed when a Yuma guy would show up to ferry a jet home from NADEP single ship - clear difference in philosophy between MAG 13 and 14 in that and many other regards. Of course, as Harrier Dude pointed out I had the displeasure of serving under two of the most oppressive regimes in MAG 14 history - I understand things are much better there these days.
Good example of one of the prime maxims of service in any branch - if you don't like the way things are, just wait. The climate changes with every CO.
Good example of one of the prime maxims of service in any branch - if you don't like the way things are, just wait. The climate changes with every CO.
Just a random story (totally unrelated to previous post).
So I´m down here in Lima, Peru for the summer and I came across a taxi driver wearing a US Navy flight jacket. When I asked where he got it he just asked "¿Adonde vas?" so how exactly he obtained it remains a mystery, but I guess I can conclude that US Naval Aviation kicks ass.
So I´m down here in Lima, Peru for the summer and I came across a taxi driver wearing a US Navy flight jacket. When I asked where he got it he just asked "¿Adonde vas?" so how exactly he obtained it remains a mystery, but I guess I can conclude that US Naval Aviation kicks ass.
So on a complete shameless threadjacking sidenote, what can a guy do to get an "incentive ride" in a T-38/F-18/F-16/S-3 ? I tried really hard while I was in primary at Vance (I was even neighbors with the Ops Group commander and tried to wok that angle) to get in the T-38 and was summarily shot down. I don't know if the S-3's are still going out of Jax, but I would really like to see some of that cool jet stuff.
I've got the ejection seat qual from T-6 land, so whose ass do I have to kiss to score a ride?
Ships do pull in there. Usually anyone on a small boy can't afford to give up a jacket, so I'd guess it probably came from a carrier. When I was there in '04, the PCU Reagan pulled in with us. Swag will get you far w/ foreign cab drivers.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Didn't somebody do that (ferrying a jet to NADEP single ship) a year or so ago and cap it off by doing 5 bills in the break and doing a 60kt RVL to the 3 board?
Beans didn't dig it.
"Rumor has it" that the pilot didn't give a rats ass what Beans thought.
S-3's are around until December. You may be able to swing a backseat ride if you know someone at VS-22....Hint hint...show up at the T-Bar on Thursdays and talk to the S-3 guys. For the other airframes, make friends in those communities, that is all I can say. When you go back for swim/phys, get the jet syl also (make up some BS like you are applying to TPS).