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Navy VS Air Force Helicopter Pilot

Reg-A-Muffin0716

Resist, Retaliate, Press Forward!
Everyone,

I fully understand that there might be threads about this C&C already. I’m just asking this out of curiosity.

To any Helo drivers out there, can any of you please chime in and shed some light on differences (that is, apart from the already obvious, and barring Army and Marine types)?
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Everyone,

I fully understand that there might be threads about this C&C already. I’m just asking this out of curiosity.

To any Helo drivers out there, can any of you please chime in and shed some light on differences (that is, apart from the already obvious, and barring Army and Marine types)?
One involves significantly more time on the boat.
 

loadtoad

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Navy guy here who is doing an exchange tour with the USAF flying the HH-60G in a USAF Rescue Squadron (RQS). For perspective I have been in three HSC squadrons and have only been flying with RQS for a year and a half so it's not fair to summarize a community based on the small amount I have seen. But I will try.

First I would point out there is a huge cultural difference between the Navy and the USAF in the way we raise our pilots and how they act in the cockpit. A quick example of this is the USAF HH-60G crews have 5 "Boldface" or Critical Memory Items (CMI's) for Emergency procedures that they have to memorize. Once a month you have to write these down and give them to an instructor. No shit, if you miss a period, or misspell a word, you failed.... Compare to the Navy MH-60S you have something around 45 CMI's to memorize. You're supposed to be verbatim on them but nobody will give you shit if you say "Off" vs "Pull" if you misspeak. The USAF dudes also don't read their checklists up front, don't do their own preflights, and don't do their own power calculations/TOLD data. Because of this, they do not know their aircraft near as well. Many say that we care too much about system knowledge in the Navy (I am not one of them) but that is another discussion. That said, they empower their enlisted back end a lot more and I for one would be a-okay with the AW's taking on greater responsibility.

Second. If you have ever head the phrase the "the Air Force tells you what you can do and the Navy tells you what you can't do". This couldn't be more true. A Navy squadron Skipper has more authority to act and we raise our aircraft commanders to think and train them with the alone and unafraid disunion making tools.

Flight hours. For many reasons I will not get into the RQS pilots fly very little. Some of the copilots are flying 80 hours a year. Junior aircraft commanders around 100 hours a year. Instructors or senior flight leads 150 hours a year. There might be some outliers but this is what I have been seeing. There are many discussions on quality vs quantity of flight hours and does burning 50 hours in the starboard D make you a better pilot? Again a fun discussion but this past year was the least I have ever flown in my entire career and have greatly atrophied as a pilot (no simulators on station either).

The HH-60G. The "G" actually stands for Ghetto. It has a couple of shwoopy systems on it that I wish we had in the Navy (especially in flight refueling) but overall this aircraft has been long neglected for updates and I shockingly have been impressed with how far along the -60S and -60R have come. That said, the HH-60W is rolling off the line and it's going to be effing awesome. Basically it's going to take RQS out of the stone ages with their aircraft and nothing is like new helicopter smell.

The Mission. RQS is a Combat Rescue community and that's really all they care about. Compared to HSC, squadron dependent, you are going to have more missions than you know what to do with. You will not know if you are a rescue pilot, attack pilot, logistics pilot, SOF pilot ect. and you probably will not be very good at any of them on your first flying tour. In RQS you're a Combat Rescue pilot and that's it. THAT SAID. This isn't 2010. Deployments are not there, and we have many guys that have not deployed or when they deploy they sit alert on a FOB or AB and never get a mission. Their "Starboard D", is playing xbox in their tent rather than burning circles in the sky flying. I constantly hear "we don't do our mission" or "I wish we did more missions". Pretty much the same gripes and bitches I heard (and said no doubt) in HSC. Another piece I have to point out; when we fly in HSC, 95% of the time we Search and Rescue Capable and part of the brief we discuss overland, overwater, etc. Despite that the HH-60G says "Rescue" on the side of the aircraft, I am not a rescue helicopter unless I have PJ's onboard, and we rarely fly with those guys where I am at.

From Fc2spyguy's point. Let me put this in perspective. OEF, OIF, OIR have all been overland wars and not littoral. There have been some Navy RW squadrons who operated feet dry but the majority did not. The last littoral wars we had was Vietnam and prior to that Korea. Both of those wars Navy RW was in the thick of it. Just like USAF "Jolly" and "Pedro" helicopters doing CSAR, you had Navy "Clementine" and "Big Mother" doing CSAR. In Korea you had RW doing mine spotting missions or logistics runs then tasked to go do CSAR. Simply put, Navy RW have ALWAYS been multi-mission. The fleet needs logistics, that's going to happen. It needs SAR, that's going to happen. It evolved and needs armed overwatch for restricted water transit, that's now going to happen. It needed dedicated SOF support, that happened. HSC is ready to fill a number of missions if needed, but right now, it's largely not needed across the fleet. So your job in the Navy is to train and be ready, do SAR, do logistics, and continue to train. RQS on the other hand has been in the thick of it and has thousands and thousands of combat hours and rescues during this time period. They were ridden hard and put up wet. But like I said above, that time has passed and the younger generation isn't getting the experiences that they had hoped for.

Alright this post is getting long. BOTTOM LINE: The grass is not greener on either side. There are many things each branch and service does better than the other and we both have a lot to learn from each other. The people and leadership make a squadron and that is no different in the USAF or USN. If you find yourself in RQS or HSC/HSM, enjoy the ride and make the place better than you found it.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Navy guy here who is doing an exchange tour with the USAF flying the HH-60G in a USAF Rescue Squadron (RQS). For perspective I have been in three HSC squadrons and have only been flying with RQS for a year and a half so it's not fair to summarize a community based on the small amount I have seen. But I will try.

First I would point out there is a huge cultural difference between the Navy and the USAF in the way we raise our pilots and how they act in the cockpit. A quick example of this is the USAF HH-60G crews have 5 "Boldface" or Critical Memory Items (CMI's) for Emergency procedures that they have to memorize. Once a month you have to write these down and give them to an instructor. No shit, if you miss a period, or misspell a word, you failed.... Compare to the Navy MH-60S you have something around 45 CMI's to memorize. You're supposed to be verbatim on them but nobody will give you shit if you say "Off" vs "Pull" if you misspeak. The USAF dudes also don't read their checklists up front, don't do their own preflights, and don't do their own power calculations/TOLD data. Because of this, they do not know their aircraft near as well. Many say that we care too much about system knowledge in the Navy (I am not one of them) but that is another discussion. That said, they empower their enlisted back end a lot more and I for one would be a-okay with the AW's taking on greater responsibility.

Second. If you have ever head the phrase the "the Air Force tells you what you can do and the Navy tells you what you can't do". This couldn't be more true. A Navy squadron Skipper has more authority to act and we raise our aircraft commanders to think and train them with the alone and unafraid disunion making tools.

Flight hours. For many reasons I will not get into the RQS pilots fly very little. Some of the copilots are flying 80 hours a year. Junior aircraft commanders around 100 hours a year. Instructors or senior flight leads 150 hours a year. There might be some outliers but this is what I have been seeing. There are many discussions on quality vs quantity of flight hours and does burning 50 hours in the starboard D make you a better pilot? Again a fun discussion but this past year was the least I have ever flown in my entire career and have greatly atrophied as a pilot (no simulators on station either).

The HH-60G. The "G" actually stands for Ghetto. It has a couple of shwoopy systems on it that I wish we had in the Navy (especially in flight refueling) but overall this aircraft has been long neglected for updates and I shockingly have been impressed with how far along the -60S and -60R have come. That said, the HH-60W is rolling off the line and it's going to be effing awesome. Basically it's going to take RQS out of the stone ages with their aircraft and nothing is like new helicopter smell.

The Mission. RQS is a Combat Rescue community and that's really all they care about. Compared to HSC, squadron dependent, you are going to have more missions than you know what to do with. You will not know if you are a rescue pilot, attack pilot, logistics pilot, SOF pilot ect. and you probably will not be very good at any of them on your first flying tour. In RQS you're a Combat Rescue pilot and that's it. THAT SAID. This isn't 2010. Deployments are not there, and we have many guys that have not deployed or when they deploy they sit alert on a FOB or AB and never get a mission. Their "Starboard D", is playing xbox in their tent rather than burning circles in the sky flying. I constantly hear "we don't do our mission" or "I wish we did more missions". Pretty much the same gripes and bitches I heard (and said no doubt) in HSC. Another piece I have to point out; when we fly in HSC, 95% of the time we Search and Rescue Capable and part of the brief we discuss overland, overwater, etc. Despite that the HH-60G says "Rescue" on the side of the aircraft, I am not a rescue helicopter unless I have PJ's onboard, and we rarely fly with those guys where I am at.

From Fc2spyguy's point. Let me put this in perspective. OEF, OIF, OIR have all been overland wars and not littoral. There have been some Navy RW squadrons who operated feet dry but the majority did not. The last littoral wars we had was Vietnam and prior to that Korea. Both of those wars Navy RW was in the thick of it. Just like USAF "Jolly" and "Pedro" helicopters doing CSAR, you had Navy "Clementine" and "Big Mother" doing CSAR. In Korea you had RW doing mine spotting missions or logistics runs then tasked to go do CSAR. Simply put, Navy RW have ALWAYS been multi-mission. The fleet needs logistics, that's going to happen. It needs SAR, that's going to happen. It evolved and needs armed overwatch for restricted water transit, that's now going to happen. It needed dedicated SOF support, that happened. HSC is ready to fill a number of missions if needed, but right now, it's largely not needed across the fleet. So your job in the Navy is to train and be ready, do SAR, do logistics, and continue to train. RQS on the other hand has been in the thick of it and has thousands and thousands of combat hours and rescues during this time period. They were ridden hard and put up wet. But like I said above, that time has passed and the younger generation isn't getting the experiences that they had hoped for.

Alright this post is getting long. BOTTOM LINE: The grass is not greener on either side. There are many things each branch and service does better than the other and we both have a lot to learn from each other. The people and leadership make a squadron and that is no different in the USAF or USN. If you find yourself in RQS or HSC/HSM, enjoy the ride and make the place better than you found it.
GREAT post.
 

kejo

Well-Known Member
pilot
Navy guy here who is doing an exchange tour with the USAF flying the HH-60G in a USAF Rescue Squadron (RQS). For perspective I have been in three HSC squadrons and have only been flying with RQS for a year and a half so it's not fair to summarize a community based on the small amount I have seen. But I will try.

First I would point out there is a huge cultural difference between the Navy and the USAF in the way we raise our pilots and how they act in the cockpit. A quick example of this is the USAF HH-60G crews have 5 "Boldface" or Critical Memory Items (CMI's) for Emergency procedures that they have to memorize. Once a month you have to write these down and give them to an instructor. No shit, if you miss a period, or misspell a word, you failed.... Compare to the Navy MH-60S you have something around 45 CMI's to memorize. You're supposed to be verbatim on them but nobody will give you shit if you say "Off" vs "Pull" if you misspeak. The USAF dudes also don't read their checklists up front, don't do their own preflights, and don't do their own power calculations/TOLD data. Because of this, they do not know their aircraft near as well. Many say that we care too much about system knowledge in the Navy (I am not one of them) but that is another discussion. That said, they empower their enlisted back end a lot more and I for one would be a-okay with the AW's taking on greater responsibility.

Second. If you have ever head the phrase the "the Air Force tells you what you can do and the Navy tells you what you can't do". This couldn't be more true. A Navy squadron Skipper has more authority to act and we raise our aircraft commanders to think and train them with the alone and unafraid disunion making tools.

Flight hours. For many reasons I will not get into the RQS pilots fly very little. Some of the copilots are flying 80 hours a year. Junior aircraft commanders around 100 hours a year. Instructors or senior flight leads 150 hours a year. There might be some outliers but this is what I have been seeing. There are many discussions on quality vs quantity of flight hours and does burning 50 hours in the starboard D make you a better pilot? Again a fun discussion but this past year was the least I have ever flown in my entire career and have greatly atrophied as a pilot (no simulators on station either).

The HH-60G. The "G" actually stands for Ghetto. It has a couple of shwoopy systems on it that I wish we had in the Navy (especially in flight refueling) but overall this aircraft has been long neglected for updates and I shockingly have been impressed with how far along the -60S and -60R have come. That said, the HH-60W is rolling off the line and it's going to be effing awesome. Basically it's going to take RQS out of the stone ages with their aircraft and nothing is like new helicopter smell.

The Mission. RQS is a Combat Rescue community and that's really all they care about. Compared to HSC, squadron dependent, you are going to have more missions than you know what to do with. You will not know if you are a rescue pilot, attack pilot, logistics pilot, SOF pilot ect. and you probably will not be very good at any of them on your first flying tour. In RQS you're a Combat Rescue pilot and that's it. THAT SAID. This isn't 2010. Deployments are not there, and we have many guys that have not deployed or when they deploy they sit alert on a FOB or AB and never get a mission. Their "Starboard D", is playing xbox in their tent rather than burning circles in the sky flying. I constantly hear "we don't do our mission" or "I wish we did more missions". Pretty much the same gripes and bitches I heard (and said no doubt) in HSC. Another piece I have to point out; when we fly in HSC, 95% of the time we Search and Rescue Capable and part of the brief we discuss overland, overwater, etc. Despite that the HH-60G says "Rescue" on the side of the aircraft, I am not a rescue helicopter unless I have PJ's onboard, and we rarely fly with those guys where I am at.

From Fc2spyguy's point. Let me put this in perspective. OEF, OIF, OIR have all been overland wars and not littoral. There have been some Navy RW squadrons who operated feet dry but the majority did not. The last littoral wars we had was Vietnam and prior to that Korea. Both of those wars Navy RW was in the thick of it. Just like USAF "Jolly" and "Pedro" helicopters doing CSAR, you had Navy "Clementine" and "Big Mother" doing CSAR. In Korea you had RW doing mine spotting missions or logistics runs then tasked to go do CSAR. Simply put, Navy RW have ALWAYS been multi-mission. The fleet needs logistics, that's going to happen. It needs SAR, that's going to happen. It evolved and needs armed overwatch for restricted water transit, that's now going to happen. It needed dedicated SOF support, that happened. HSC is ready to fill a number of missions if needed, but right now, it's largely not needed across the fleet. So your job in the Navy is to train and be ready, do SAR, do logistics, and continue to train. RQS on the other hand has been in the thick of it and has thousands and thousands of combat hours and rescues during this time period. They were ridden hard and put up wet. But like I said above, that time has passed and the younger generation isn't getting the experiences that they had hoped for.

Alright this post is getting long. BOTTOM LINE: The grass is not greener on either side. There are many things each branch and service does better than the other and we both have a lot to learn from each other. The people and leadership make a squadron and that is no different in the USAF or USN. If you find yourself in RQS or HSC/HSM, enjoy the ride and make the place better than you found it.

THIS. Excellent post.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
No sims?

In theory, lower flight time is doable if you have a robust sim program, but without that, that few hours is just dangerous, especially in that mission set.
 

croakerfish

Well-Known Member
pilot
Navy guy here who is doing an exchange tour with the USAF flying the HH-60G in a USAF Rescue Squadron (RQS). For perspective I have been in three HSC squadrons and have only been flying with RQS for a year and a half so it's not fair to summarize a community based on the small amount I have seen. But I will try.

First I would point out there is a huge cultural difference between the Navy and the USAF in the way we raise our pilots and how they act in the cockpit. A quick example of this is the USAF HH-60G crews have 5 "Boldface" or Critical Memory Items (CMI's) for Emergency procedures that they have to memorize. Once a month you have to write these down and give them to an instructor. No shit, if you miss a period, or misspell a word, you failed.... Compare to the Navy MH-60S you have something around 45 CMI's to memorize. You're supposed to be verbatim on them but nobody will give you shit if you say "Off" vs "Pull" if you misspeak. The USAF dudes also don't read their checklists up front, don't do their own preflights, and don't do their own power calculations/TOLD data. Because of this, they do not know their aircraft near as well. Many say that we care too much about system knowledge in the Navy (I am not one of them) but that is another discussion. That said, they empower their enlisted back end a lot more and I for one would be a-okay with the AW's taking on greater responsibility.

Second. If you have ever head the phrase the "the Air Force tells you what you can do and the Navy tells you what you can't do". This couldn't be more true. A Navy squadron Skipper has more authority to act and we raise our aircraft commanders to think and train them with the alone and unafraid disunion making tools.

Flight hours. For many reasons I will not get into the RQS pilots fly very little. Some of the copilots are flying 80 hours a year. Junior aircraft commanders around 100 hours a year. Instructors or senior flight leads 150 hours a year. There might be some outliers but this is what I have been seeing. There are many discussions on quality vs quantity of flight hours and does burning 50 hours in the starboard D make you a better pilot? Again a fun discussion but this past year was the least I have ever flown in my entire career and have greatly atrophied as a pilot (no simulators on station either).

The HH-60G. The "G" actually stands for Ghetto. It has a couple of shwoopy systems on it that I wish we had in the Navy (especially in flight refueling) but overall this aircraft has been long neglected for updates and I shockingly have been impressed with how far along the -60S and -60R have come. That said, the HH-60W is rolling off the line and it's going to be effing awesome. Basically it's going to take RQS out of the stone ages with their aircraft and nothing is like new helicopter smell.

The Mission. RQS is a Combat Rescue community and that's really all they care about. Compared to HSC, squadron dependent, you are going to have more missions than you know what to do with. You will not know if you are a rescue pilot, attack pilot, logistics pilot, SOF pilot ect. and you probably will not be very good at any of them on your first flying tour. In RQS you're a Combat Rescue pilot and that's it. THAT SAID. This isn't 2010. Deployments are not there, and we have many guys that have not deployed or when they deploy they sit alert on a FOB or AB and never get a mission. Their "Starboard D", is playing xbox in their tent rather than burning circles in the sky flying. I constantly hear "we don't do our mission" or "I wish we did more missions". Pretty much the same gripes and bitches I heard (and said no doubt) in HSC. Another piece I have to point out; when we fly in HSC, 95% of the time we Search and Rescue Capable and part of the brief we discuss overland, overwater, etc. Despite that the HH-60G says "Rescue" on the side of the aircraft, I am not a rescue helicopter unless I have PJ's onboard, and we rarely fly with those guys where I am at.

From Fc2spyguy's point. Let me put this in perspective. OEF, OIF, OIR have all been overland wars and not littoral. There have been some Navy RW squadrons who operated feet dry but the majority did not. The last littoral wars we had was Vietnam and prior to that Korea. Both of those wars Navy RW was in the thick of it. Just like USAF "Jolly" and "Pedro" helicopters doing CSAR, you had Navy "Clementine" and "Big Mother" doing CSAR. In Korea you had RW doing mine spotting missions or logistics runs then tasked to go do CSAR. Simply put, Navy RW have ALWAYS been multi-mission. The fleet needs logistics, that's going to happen. It needs SAR, that's going to happen. It evolved and needs armed overwatch for restricted water transit, that's now going to happen. It needed dedicated SOF support, that happened. HSC is ready to fill a number of missions if needed, but right now, it's largely not needed across the fleet. So your job in the Navy is to train and be ready, do SAR, do logistics, and continue to train. RQS on the other hand has been in the thick of it and has thousands and thousands of combat hours and rescues during this time period. They were ridden hard and put up wet. But like I said above, that time has passed and the younger generation isn't getting the experiences that they had hoped for.

Alright this post is getting long. BOTTOM LINE: The grass is not greener on either side. There are many things each branch and service does better than the other and we both have a lot to learn from each other. The people and leadership make a squadron and that is no different in the USAF or USN. If you find yourself in RQS or HSC/HSM, enjoy the ride and make the place better than you found it.

/thread. Damn that makes me feel a lot better about HSC.
 

fc2spyguy

loving my warm and comfy 214 blanket
pilot
Contributor
What are guys leaving their first tour wrt flight hours these days at HSC? I left with about 900 and that included about 9 months of med down for a blown out neck, thanks to helicopters and our helmet.
 
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